What should an "average" 2 bed bungalow DD be?

liddyloo

Hello,

I'm trying to get my head around our energy bills and just getting no where fast. 

In 2020 we moved to a mid terrace 2 bed bungalow from a 3 bedroom mid terrace house. Energy bills have been a nightmare since we moved in but the thing I really can't understand is that it costs more in the bungalow that it ever did at the house - that's before all these increases (from 2020 it's been more) AND running a food business from the house where I used a hell of a lot of appliances most days. 

The gas boiler has been checked to make sure it's not consuming to much gas and is apparently fine.

Our DD is currently £134 for gas and electric, the bill for 76 days between sept and now has just come in and were £22 in credit yet being told the DD is going up to £363 from December. 

I'm slightly at a loss. It's two adults in the home, one on UC, the other pension (in the process of applying for attendance allowance). One with Raynaud's so turning off the heating completely isn't really an option. 

It just seems a lot. A family member is in a 1 bed flat and only paying £24 a month as the £66 is covering most of their bill. I know our place is bigger but it seems such a jump, especially when more than our previous 3 bed house. We've had extra insulation added in the roof and walls as well this year! 

Have people found that paying for what you've actually used is better than paying a set amount? 

I'm so confused.

EssexHebridean

Impossible to tell. I mean, literally impossible. Someone might come along and tell you that they live in a 2 bed bungalow, 2 adults, same set up as you, but they are paying half what you do - but that might be because they rarely use heating at all, their home is super-insulated above and beyond what would be expected, they are out almost every night so rarely cook at home, they are gym-bunnies so only ever shower/hairwash at the gym....someone else who is also a two person household in a 2 bed bungalow might have no loft insulation, heating permanently turned to 25, a hot tub in the back garden and taking 2 showers a day and so be paying double. 

Have you established what your actual energy use over a year is? Comparing financial figures is pretty pointless, but where you can really drill down to the detail even to the extent of confirming whether in fact what is being estimated is reasonable is by working out how much you used last year  - that will give you a far better picture of whether you need to challenge the DD amount being requested, or whether it's time to work out where you can cut back on use. 

Is that most recent bill based on smart meters, customer readings (readings you have given) or estimates?

RobM99

Horses for courses! I much prefer to pay-as-I-go on a variable direct debit (DD) and smart meter. I know the winter bill is going to be a lot but I'm OK with that.

First, is the bungalow draughty? Possibly some quick, easy, cheap fixes there.

How about loft insulation? Not quite so  QEC (Quick, Easy, Cheap!) but not  massive job.

macman

Tell us your annual kWh usage on each fuel and meaningful advice can be given. Otherwise, it's like asking us what you car will cost to fuel each year without telling us how many miles you are driving.
Also state how the property is heated and hot watered (mains gas boiler for both?). And your current tariff. What room temp is the 'stat set to and what hours is it on for?
The problem with variable DD is that you will pay 3 or 4 times as much in the months when the heating is on. Fixed DD evens out your payments all year round.
Bungalows are inherently more  expensive to heat, as the floor and roof area is much greater than a house with the equivalent no. of rooms. Lost heat rising from the ground floor can't serve to heat the first floor, because there isn't one...
Appliances are relatively trivial, what uses 80% of your energy is CH and DHW.

DullGreyGuy

Number of bedrooms is a very poor proxy for the size of a property... we have a 2 bed flat but its 110m2 which is larger than the average 3 bed terrace house. Indeed our las house was a 95m2 3 bed and so smaller. 

Bungalows are typically going to cost more to heat than a house even with all factors being equal but in practice bungalows tend to be older housing stock with poorer insulation and therefore the difference is even greater. Most talk about the efficiency of bungalows but thats to do with downsizing not intrinsically because its a bungalow and assumes people were heating empty bedrooms etc. 

liddyloo said:

Have people found that paying for what you've actually used is better than paying a set amount? 

Define better?

Fixed DD protects you from the high bills of winter and low bills of summer and given most peoples income isnt seasonal it makes budgeting easier. It obviously can lead to certain tensions however if you either develop a large credit or debit as the numbers are wrong. This often is avoidable through regular provision of reads (or smart meter). 

Variable DD avoids that problem but means you can get very large winter bills to pay which may be ok if your income is seasonal and matches or if you are good at saving in the summer months to pay the higher bills of winter. 

liddyloo

Thank you.

Looking at the most recent bill the annual consumption for gas, based on estimates is 17,192 kwh and electric is, again based on estimates, is 2773 kwh. We have a smart meter. The most recent bill says it doesn't have figured to compare to last year. I think we finally got away from SSE in November last year (long story, not our fault) 

This year we had the insulation checked as our request by our housing association. They found the loft was under regulations and there was hardly any left in the 2 external walls. The loft has been add so it's correct and the walls emptied and refilled. 

We don't have underlay under the flooring in the 2 carpeted rooms and hallway. The kitchen and other bedroom are laminate, as is the wetroom. Back porch is tiles. 

We have an electric oven and a gas boiler than does heating and hot water.

We also have solar panels on the roof but they do not store energy. When the smart meters were put in the engineer was confused, it was summer (2021) and his equipment said we weren't using any electricity, so we know they are working to a degree. 

The thermostat is set to around 15c which we turn up to 20c ish in the evenings, around 22c if it is particularly cold. We try not to have it on in the day time (both of us are at home), if we do then it is for a short period just to "take the chill off" as it can get bitter in here. Of an evening it can vary from 6pm onwards. Last night we didn't turn it on at all until 10pm and then it wasn't for long, just to take the bite off again. 

We do have a tumble dryer which is used on average once a week and a table top dishwasher used may be 5 times a week. 

Can't really shut internal doors to warm the rooms individually due to pets moving around. 

liddyloo

DullGreyGuy said:

Number of bedrooms is a very poor proxy for the size of a property... we have a 2 bed flat but its 110m2 which is larger than the average 3 bed terrace house. Indeed our las house was a 95m2 3 bed and so smaller. 

Bungalows are typically going to cost more to heat than a house even with all factors being equal but in practice bungalows tend to be older housing stock with poorer insulation and therefore the difference is even greater. Most talk about the efficiency of bungalows but thats to do with downsizing not intrinsically because its a bungalow and assumes people were heating empty bedrooms etc. 

liddyloo said:

Have people found that paying for what you've actually used is better than paying a set amount? 

Define better?

Fixed DD protects you from the high bills of winter and low bills of summer and given most peoples income isnt seasonal it makes budgeting easier. It obviously can lead to certain tensions however if you either develop a large credit or debit as the numbers are wrong. This often is avoidable through regular provision of reads (or smart meter). 

Variable DD avoids that problem but means you can get very large winter bills to pay which may be ok if your income is seasonal and matches or if you are good at saving in the summer months to pay the higher bills of winter. 

Better in the sense of paying for exactly what we have used I guess. We simply cannot afford £363 a month, we literally don't have it. If we are £22 in credit from Sept - Nov with a payment of £134 per month it feels like an excessive jump. 

QrizB

liddyloo said:

Looking at the most recent bill the annual consumption for gas, based on estimates is 17,192 kwh and electric is, again based on estimates, is 2773 kwh.

You're using almost 50% more gas than the average household, and slightly less than the average amount of electricity (the latter no doubt reduced by your solar panels).

On the current EPG cap, your annual bill will be something like £3000, so your payment should be around £250 a month.

[Deleted User]

liddyloo said:

Looking at the most recent bill the annual consumption for gas, based on estimates is 17,192 kwh and electric is, again based on estimates, is 2773 kwh. We have a smart meter. The most recent bill says it doesn't have figured to compare to last year.

This year we had the insulation checked as our request by our housing association. They found the loft was under regulations and there was hardly any left in the 2 external walls. The loft has been add so it's correct and the walls emptied and refilled. 

We don't have underlay under the flooring in the 2 carpeted rooms and hallway. The kitchen and other bedroom are laminate, as is the wetroom. Back porch is tiles. 

We have an electric oven and a gas boiler than does heating and hot water.

We also have solar panels on the roof but they do not store energy. When the smart meters were put in the engineer was confused, it was summer (2021) and his equipment said we weren't using any electricity, so we know they are working to a degree. 

The thermostat is set to around 15c which we turn up to 20c ish in the evenings, around 22c if it is particularly cold. We try not to have it on in the day time (both of us are at home), if we do then it is for a short period just to "take the chill off" as it can get bitter in here. Of an evening it can vary from 6pm onwards. Last night we didn't turn it on at all until 10pm and then it wasn't for long, just to take the bite off again. 

We do have a tumble dryer which is used on average once a week and a table top dishwasher used may be 5 times a week. 

Can't really shut internal doors to warm the rooms individually due to pets moving around. 

I am very similar to yourself in now living in a bungalow (semi-detached) 83.4m2 floor space, gas combi boiler but no solar panels.  CH flow rate temp set to 50C and DHW set to 55C.  Insulation appears reasonable in loft and in walls.  I do empathise with moving pets - in my case a fussy cat that hates closed doors but it keeps me fit..

I live in the North East so not the warmest part of the country.  Thermostat kicks in these days at circa 17.5C and is seldom turned up any higher.  This is one big difference in what we use compared to yourself.  We layer up with thermals during the day and, when watching TV in the lounge, we use a heated throw rather than turning the thermostat up to the sort of numbers that you have (what we were using last year BTW).  Yes to a tumble dryer (heat pump variety) but washing invariably done now on windy dry days which reduces the use of it.

Looking to now get to a usage in 2022 of circa 6000 kWh/year of gas and 2450 kWh/year of electricity.  Contrast this to 2021 where the figures were 9500 kWh/year of gas and 3050 kWh/year of electricity where I was living in a semi-detached house with similar levels of insulation and similar floor space.  

Qyburn

liddyloo said:

Looking at the most recent bill the annual consumption for gas, based on estimates is 17,192 kwh and electric is, again based on estimates, is 2773 kwh.

Do you have any actual meter readings so you can see how accurate those estimates are?

knightstyle

Just remember you only pay for heat that escapes from the dwelling so a poorly insulated one will use much more energy to keep warm.
How much insulation is there in the loft and walls?