SMETS2 biasing readings to day usage at 50% higher unit rate

Phones4Chris

@JohnCPearson
In answer to your Q5. The Bright App will show you the Times & Rates of the ToU rates programmed into the meter's Tariff register.
BUT beware, those times are not necessarily the precise times that the Meter switches Tariff Registers and the ALCS - I don't know if you have any equipment that only operates when the Off-peak is active - controlled by the ALCS (& sometimes a contactor - if it's not a five terminal meter). As an aside you couldn't rely on the IHD for this if you had one, as that uses the Tariff register setting, not the times the Registers are switched. (As a further aside I don't know if this varies with the make/model of meter used, but it's certainly true for some).

As was mentioned in the previous post, sit by the meter just before the times you think it's going to switch and watch the display switch from one register to another. That is the ONLY reliable method. You should then be able to confirm whether what's in the ToU register is the same as the time the meter actually switches.

In answer to your Q6, IMHO you should have been given an IHD. At the very least its best use is to show you exactly what the energy usage in kWh is at any given instant. Cost information on the IHD (and the meter come to that) will not be accurate if the meter hasn't been correctly loaded with your actual tariff. Billing however is normally done based on the register readings and the tariff on your account - which you should see on your bill.

JohnCPearson

To SparkyGrad,

"didn't get one of those (an IHD)"
 
We did not and the company inform me that they don't provide them.   So no IHD unless we fork out for one.

"Then there should be an option called TOUMatrix (or something similar). "

The meter display i/f is complex, extensive and hugely time consumming to navigate.
The three memory matrices have this data:
TOUMTRX. 48 registers, R1-48. R1 has the day consumption, R2 the night consumption, R3-R48 all empty
TOUBLCK. 32 registers.   B1(R1-8),  B2(R1 - 8), B3(R1-8), B4(R1-8) all empty
BLKCTMX   32 registers.  B1(R1-8),  B2(R1 - 8), B3(R1-8), B4(R1-8) all empty

The day and night hours I seek may be formatted in a "Time Pattern Regime" number which I have not identified.
(Search  engie  2022-03/TPR_Reference_sheet_2022.pdf)

To Dolor

"then tariff changeover times are picked up by the BRIGHT app."

Bright and n3rgy require a meter MAC number via the IHD we do not have.  Our SMETS2 has identifying numbers
(eg CHFID, GPFID and GUID)  engraved on it but I haven't found a app that will authenticate with these. 

"How does your present total usage accord with past usage in kWh/year? "

a. The usage read recently from the SMETS2  is R1 = 6511 & R2 = 1808.  ie total usage = 8319   KWHrs
b. The total usage from the SMETS1 on the day it was swapped out was day 37294, night 32796 KWHrs
c. The invoices from the SMETS2 and SMETS1 periods reflect the above figures,
d. I have 3 weeks consumption noted at 7am and 7 pm each day.  These average  13 units 7am - 7pm & 11 units 7pm to 7am
e. I have the supplier Sales Dept "Sanity Sheet" showing they quoted on an EAC day of 4029 and a night EAC of 4022.
    These EACs would be from the SMETS1 era.

   The SMETS2  is not charging  on a 7-7 basis

Phones4Chris

" Bright App will show you the Times & Rates of the ToU rates"

See above.  The Bright app needs an MAC which we don't have.

"sit by the meter just before the times you think it's going to switch and watch the display switch from one register to another"

There is no symbol on the meter display that I can identify as indicating day and night billing .

"IMHO you should have been given an IHD"

Well we ain't and my requests for same have been denied.

/Rant  - Tin hats on
At contract renewal our supplier ignored the rates I agreed with their sales and charged us higher rates.
I complained vigorously and got a rebate and the rates reduced.

We are not being charged 12 hour day/night rates despite previously being told so verbally and by email.
The current SMETS2 times are costing us ~£300/year, not a huge amount but irritating.  We are a block
of flats with a communal heating system with pumps, boilers, digital control equipment & lighting with
managing agents who pay invoices without question. Our suppliers know this and an uncharitable view is
that they are attempting to defraud us believing no one checks.

I've just issued another formal complaint and in respnse I got this email from their "Ops Support"
"We had a look into your query reading the day/night charges being different since SMETS2 was installed.
This would be due to Previous TPR for had night-time usage from 7pm - 7am 12 hrs
Due to mandatory TPR change when installing Smets 2- TPR change 12:30 - 7:30  7hr".

This is BS  !!!

SMETS2 meters enable fiddling and As JR Ewings old grandpapa said "Where there's a way there's a will"
When energy  prices took off suppliers panicked and appear to be resorting any means to bolster their cash
balances.  I have evidence of this from other accounts.
/end rant

[Deleted User]

JohnCPearson said:
...
they are attempting to defraud us
...

I have evidence of this from other accounts.

If you have direct evidence of fraud, you should be contacting the Police and/or your solicitor - not discussing it on an open internet forum.

JohnCPearson said:

Bright and n3rgy require a meter MAC number via the IHD we do not have.  

Bright (at least) does not require a MAC address - you can register with the MPRN and address, both of which are on your bill.

JohnCPearson

"Bright (at least) does not require a MAC address"

Ok.  smatme.co.uk reports "Bright needs the GUID/MAc/EUI from the back of your IHD"
I'll download the app and post on what it provides

" you should be contacting the Police and/or your solicitor "

Perhaps I should have said "fiddling" instead of "fraud" but if bill inflation is policy that's fraud.
You can't prove deliberate fiddling without data from a decent populationto to show consistency.
Otherwise overcharging is dismissed as an error. 

[Deleted User]

That's a valuable correction - the mods are very wary of legal implications.

[Deleted User]

SMETS2 meters enable fiddling and As JR Ewings old grandpapa said "Where there's a way there's a will"

All meters can be tampered with if someone is minded to do so. Unlike analogue meters, smart meters have built in anti-tampering alerts.

Billing errors do occur on all meters. For example, this forum has reports of electricity night units being charged at the day rate and vice versa, and gas meters which record volume in cubic metres being billed as if the units are cubic metres.

Conspiracy or C****p: my money is on the latter. Any deliberate attempt by a supplier to bill incorrectly would be deemed to be fraud. 

Social media is full of accusations such as scam; fraud etc because posters believe that they are immune from legal action. I recall one international airline got a court order forcing a website owner to release the contact details of posters when it got fed up of defamatory posts being made against it.

JohnCPearson

Thanx to forum users for assistance.

1.  Bright app

I attempted to registered the app only to receive this mail from Hildebrand:

"Hello, Thank you for your interest in our products and services.
At the moment, as a regulated service, we are not approved for accepting non-domestic sites unless they are via one of our non-domestic energy supplier customers. We are in discussions with our regulator about adding non-domestic sites to our scope and will get in touch if they give us approval.  Kind regards, XXX"

So the app will not access meters for businessees (we are an SME for the purpose of our communal electricity a/c) .

2.  Smets2 used to change hoours allocated to day and to night.

Since July our supplier repeatedly stated in writing that the hours are 7am -7pm day  and 7pm -7am for night.
Our day rate is  ~50% more than the night rate,

Hoever earlier this month after the intervention of the Ombudsman and more than 4 months of complaints to the
supplier I received the following in an email:

"We had a look into your query reading the day/night charges being different since SMETS2 was installed.
This would be due to Previous TPR for had night-time usage from 7pm - 7am 12 hrs
Due to mandatory TPR change when installing Smets 2- TPR change 12:30 - 7:30  7hr."

As a result of this late admission I no longer need to obtain the day and night hours from the SMETS2.
Now I need to get the meter parameters changed back to those agreed in our fixed price contract
and to obtain a rebate.

Wish me luck

John

 

JohnCPearson

I forgot to add to my previous post a reading I encountered when interrogating our SMETS2.  Our invoices do not include a rebate for exported electricity and our meter at the top level of its display menu structure (where you would look for your consumption and bill) reports no exported electricity.  However deep in its labyrinthine structure I noted at export figure of approx. 350 WattHours over a period of ~10 months.  At current unit costs this is ~14p and trivial, but not so trivial for a company with perhaps 1.5 million electricity customers.   We ALL export a small amount of electricity because none of us have purely resistive loads.  Inductive and capacitive loads like motors, discharge lights, switch mode power supplies in PCs and for device charging all "kick" a small amount of energy back into the supply network. This "export" will vary with the nature of the "plant" and in some circumstances could be worth the credit which is not being given.

Now smart meters record exports perhaps we should demand these are shown in our bills.

John    

[Deleted User]

JohnCPearson said:

I forgot to add to my previous post a reading I encountered when interrogating our SMETS2.  Our invoices do not include a rebate for exported electricity and our meter at the top level of its display menu structure (where you would look for your consumption and bill) reports no exported electricity.  However deep in its labyrinthine structure I noted at export figure of approx. 350 WattHours over a period of ~10 months.  At current unit costs this is ~14p and trivial, but not so trivial for a company with perhaps 1.5 million electricity customers.   We ALL export a small amount of electricity because none of us have purely resistive loads.  Inductive and capacitive loads like motors, discharge lights, switch mode power supplies in PCs and for device charging all "kick" a small amount of energy back into the supply network. This "export" will vary with the nature of the "plant" and in some circumstances could be worth the credit which is not being given.

Now smart meters record exports perhaps we should demand these are shown in our bills.

John    

For domestic installations, export units are only shown on energy statements when the supplier has obtained an export MPAN for the meter and the supplier is paying for exported energy.

Ectophile

JohnCPearson said:

I forgot to add to my previous post a reading I encountered when interrogating our SMETS2.  Our invoices do not include a rebate for exported electricity and our meter at the top level of its display menu structure (where you would look for your consumption and bill) reports no exported electricity.  However deep in its labyrinthine structure I noted at export figure of approx. 350 WattHours over a period of ~10 months.  At current unit costs this is ~14p and trivial, but not so trivial for a company with perhaps 1.5 million electricity customers.   We ALL export a small amount of electricity because none of us have purely resistive loads.  Inductive and capacitive loads like motors, discharge lights, switch mode power supplies in PCs and for device charging all "kick" a small amount of energy back into the supply network. This "export" will vary with the nature of the "plant" and in some circumstances could be worth the credit which is not being given.

Now smart meters record exports perhaps we should demand these are shown in our bills.

John    

All domestic meters record watt-hours, not VA-hours.  So they should not be reading the capacitive or inductive loads, either for import or export.  Some industrial meters record VA-hours, but only to penalise those customers who present an unacceptably poor power factor.