SMETS2 biasing readings to day usage at 50% higher unit rate

JohnCPearson

We have a SMETS2 EDMI ES-12B electricity meter monitoring day and night usage for
which the day unit (KW.Hr) price is 50% more than the night unit price
The meter reports a day usage of 3.58 times the night usage (6062/1695).
Its predecessor, a SMETS1, reported a day usage of 1.14 times the night usage
(total day/night readings were 37294/32794)
.
Recording the total usage at 7am and 7pm over 4 days gives a very approx. day
usage of 1.29 times night usage (40/31) ie near the SMETS1 day/night usage

The installing supplier states day and night hours are 7am-7pm 
The SMETS2 was installed a year ago and we were not given a IHD

Despite much fiddling with the meter's complicated and extensive interface I've been
unable to find or identify the day and night hours programmed in the meter.

Q1.  Does anyone know how to find the day and night hours in the meter menu ? 
Q2    Is 7am -7 pm mandated by an authority, eg Ofgem ?
Q3    Are the day and night times fixed in firmware ?.
  Or
Q4   Can anyone confirm that the supplying utility programs the day/night hours ?
Q5   I understand that I can interrogate the DCC via an app. called Bright.
        Can this retrieve all the parameters programmed by the supplying utility ?
       (the Data Communications Company network apparently takes readings for suppliers)
Q6  Should we have received an IHD ?
Q7  Has anyone had experience of meter testing by the supplying utility
      OR
 Q8  Has anyone had experience of an independent  agency testing the meter
   And if so
Q9     Did the independent agency test with a second meter placed in series

Apologies for so many questions

John

BUFF

what tariff are you on? e.g. E7 is because you get 7 hours of "cheap" off-peak rate electricity, E10 because you get 10 etc,
It seems unlikely that you get cheap rate 7pm-7am, what does your bill say?
I believe that off-peak hours are set by the network operator.

Astria

Off-peak normally doesn't kick in until at least 11pm and depends on your location and provider. It should be stated on your bill as to what the hours are. I'd be very surprised to have 12 hours of off-peak hours.

pochase

Welcome to the forum.

You are not able to program the time you want the to have cheap night electricity. You will have an E7 tariff giving you 7 hours at night or E10 with 7 hours at night and 3 hours during the day. E10 is a legacy tariff and not many people are still on it.

The tests you have done measuring your energy use between 7am and 7pm are useless as the night rate time will be very different from the real one used by your provider.

There are different reasons why your day/night rate usage has changed.

- were you using storage heaters that you are not using any longer?
- the clock of the old meter might have been wrong, so you were getting expensive electricity at night rates.

Here is a bit more information about E7 tariffs 

https://www.edfenergy.com/for-home/energywise/all-you-need-know-about-economy-7#:~:text=Usually, you get your seven,depending on where you live.

macman

The cheap-rate hours are determined by the DNO, not by the meter or supplier.

QrizB

macman said:

The cheap-rate hours are determined by the DNO, not by the meter or supplier.

In practice, though, it's the settings in the meter that determine whether, at any particular moment, your electricity use is recorded against the peak-rate register or the cheap-rate one. And those settings are sent from your supplier via the DCC to your smart meter.

michaels

JohnCPearson said:

We have a SMETS2 EDMI ES-12B electricity meter monitoring day and night usage for
which the day unit (KW.Hr) price is 50% more than the night unit price
The meter reports a day usage of 3.58 times the night usage (6062/1695).
Its predecessor, a SMETS1, reported a day usage of 1.14 times the night usage
(total day/night readings were 37294/32794)
.
Recording the total usage at 7am and 7pm over 4 days gives a very approx. day
usage of 1.29 times night usage (40/31) ie near the SMETS1 day/night usage

The installing supplier states day and night hours are 7am-7pm 
The SMETS2 was installed a year ago and we were not given a IHD

Despite much fiddling with the meter's complicated and extensive interface I've been
unable to find or identify the day and night hours programmed in the meter.

Q1.  Does anyone know how to find the day and night hours in the meter menu ? 
Q2    Is 7am -7 pm mandated by an authority, eg Ofgem ?
Q3    Are the day and night times fixed in firmware ?.
  Or
Q4   Can anyone confirm that the supplying utility programs the day/night hours ?
Q5   I understand that I can interrogate the DCC via an app. called Bright.
        Can this retrieve all the parameters programmed by the supplying utility ?
       (the Data Communications Company network apparently takes readings for suppliers)
Q6  Should we have received an IHD ?
Q7  Has anyone had experience of meter testing by the supplying utility
      OR
 Q8  Has anyone had experience of an independent  agency testing the meter
   And if so
Q9     Did the independent agency test with a second meter placed in series

Apologies for so many questions

John

Bright, Hugo and Loop apps all let you see your usage by 30 min segments (if your meter is set up this way).  n3gry lets you download your usage.

n3rgy data - accessing smart energy data

JohnCPearson

Folks

Thanx for the advice.  Responding to comments :

1.  "what tariff are you on?"
    I won't give the tariff at this time cos I don't want the utility to be identified by its name.  It's not E7 or E10.
    The utility has executed the contract with less than "good will" (ie I suspect they deliberately tried
    to cheat us) and if I publish their behaviour to warn others I don't want problems of libel
 
     We're an SME (ie business) with a contract with fixed day/night rates and standing charges for its duration,
     The rates have been confirmed in writing by the utility and are stated in the invoices.  
     The day/night rates are quoted in the invoices but not the day/nigt hours
      The utility has separately confirmed in writing that the hours are 7-7 and while not stated in the SMETS1
      invoices these hours are implied by the day/night charges when it was installed.
       
2.     "were you using storage heaters that you are not using any longer?"
          Our plant has not changed.  Consumption is consistant over many years, only varying with season

3.       " the clock of the old meter might have been wrong, so you were getting expensive electricity at night rates."
          The clock on the old meter was correct.  I checked it when reporting monthly readings to the utility.

4       "And those settings are sent from your supplier via the DCC to your smart meter."
         This is what I understand.  The electricity supplier downloads 3rd party firmware and sets meter parameters
         eg charging rates and I presume (can) set the day and night hours.    These can also be varied subsequently
        
         It is the day/night hours in the meter which I need to obtain. 

[Deleted User]

I know how to retrieve the Day & Night rates from that sort of meter (it's a domestic smart meter despite you having a business contract) - but I don't know if the same menu shows you the changeover times.  The simplest way would be to check when the IHD "live" price changed, but I note that you didn't get given one of those.

I assume you know how to use the buttons but if not: Hold OK to get to the main menu, and then use the arrows and "hold for OK" to navigate.

Try going to the Billing option, then the advanced option inside that.  Then there should be an option called TOUMatrix (or something similar).  After selecting that, scrolling will probably show rates, but I don't know about times.  If it isn't there, try checking some other options in that Billing>Advanced area.

[Deleted User]

It is the day/night hours in the meter which I need to obtain.

I am with Octopus. When a dual-rate tariff is set using 2 of the 4 registers, then tariff changeover times are picked up by the BRIGHT app. That said, for most of its time-of use tariffs, Octopus uses a single register and it bills using 30 minute usage data at the agreed tariff rates.

To access data from your meters, it has to be either your supplier or another Registered DCC Other User (such as Hildebrand). They use secure Adapter software. Hildebrand has its own Adapter software: Octopus uses Adapter software produced by TMA/CGI. The DCC does not retain any usage data: it is just the network provider and the provider/manager of communications hubs.

My memory is a bit hazy on this but there was an issue with some SMETS1 meters models when they were first ‘enrolled on and adopted by’ the DCC Network. Usage was being under recorded by 50%.

How does your present total usage accord with past usage in kWh/year? This is the first thing that I would check.

QrizB

JohnCPearson said:

     
         It is the day/night hours in the meter which I need to obtain. 

One simple but time-consuming way is to watch the screen of the meter and sww rhan it switches over from one rate to the other. Exactly how this is indicated will vary between meter designs but in your case the EDMI ES-12B has an on-screen icon that appears when the auxiliary load control switch is active.