Smart Meter - any reason not to?

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Personally, I worked for years in industrial measurement & control and I don't trust the accuracy of smartmeters

A sensational lab test from a few years back https://www.utwente.nl/en/news/2017/3/313543/electronic-energy-meters-false-readings-almost-six-times-higher-than-actual-energy-consumption

Obviously they chose problematic appliances, and used a lot of them to highlight the errors, but suppose you had one or two of them, and the error was 5% or so. You can't really tell if the error is say 5% overall, a £300,000 bill error would be obvious, a 5% error would be a suspicion. Even if they take the meter away for test it won't show any errors caused by your appliances.

With the increasing prevalence of dodgy eBay chargers and cheap LED lamps I'd expect quite a lot of poorly designed problematic devices.

diystarter7

Raxiel said:

@Deleted_User I assume you don't have a bank account for the same reason?

diystarter7 said:

I asked a few months back about SM's. The overwhelming consensus was 'avoid at all costs.'

I was worried about being penalised for using fuel during peak periods via higher rates between certain hours EG, 6am and 10 am and then 4 to 7pm etc. I can see it happening so a no thanks from me.

You don't need a smart meter or a ToU tariff to be penalised for using peak rate electricity, you'll just get eye watering rates all day long. ToU will be a way for those who can shift their usage outside the peaks to make a saving.

Fair enough but I recall people moving to diesel as it was sold to joe public via cheaper prices at the pumps and road tax i think then BANG, diesel a lot more expensive and now some councils charge you extra for driving in and or parking in certain areas.

peter_the_piper

I chose to have smart meters as I have to stand on a ladder to read the electric and crawl into a kitchen cupboard with a torch to read the gas, a great help if your'e an oldie like me. It also has the benefit that the energy company has no need to use estimates on your bills.     

ps I do check the smart meter readings every few months or so.

Nebulous2

Deleted_User said:

I am a software engineer by profession.  I will avoid a smart meter at all costs - even when they reach the stages of bribing us with cheap energy. Reason being - I don't want to give someone else remote control over anything in my life or home. I have never seen a software system that I'd trust, and I'm rapidly losing trust in big organizations / governments that use said systems!!

They are bribing us. I'm being offered £50 per meter off my bill to get them fitted.....

EssexHebridean

diystarter7 said:

I asked a few months back about SM's. The overwhelming consensus was 'avoid at all costs.'

I was worried about being penalised for using fuel during peak periods via higher rates between certain hours EG, 6am and 10 am and then 4 to 7pm etc. I can see it happening so a no thanks from me.

Do you mean this thread: https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6332241/are-all-smart-meters-the-same-and-can-you-change-suppliers-and-keep-the-same-smart-meter/p1 ? If so, then I seem to recall that the vast majority of responses to you were explaining all the benefits, and indeed, you'd actually got as far as booking the appointment, then you read something in the Daily Fail that made you change your mind? It's been a very long while indeed since I've seen a thread on here where the "overwhelming consensus" was to avoid smart meters (other than in the very niche situation of someone having an E7 supply with British Gas). 

TOU tariffs are definitely the way ahead - with those with SM's having the advantage of the cheaper rates at off peak times, and those who are still determined to resist probably paying those higher rates 24/7... Those (even) higher energy bills will make it every so tricky to afford the tin-foil for the hats... 

Ultimately, there are very few of us on here who "have total control" over our energy/utilities supply. We think we do, because right now, the only time the electricity goes off is if there is a power cut, and the gas/water if there is a network failure. 

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diystarter7 said:

Fair enough but I recall people moving to diesel as it was sold to joe public via cheaper prices at the pumps and road tax i think then BANG, diesel a lot more expensive and now some councils charge you extra for driving in and or parking in certain areas.

I got caught by that one.

Diesel was the fuel of the future, miles cheaper at the pump, more mpg, no nasty lead and less CO2.

Within 12 months of my getting one, diesel was the fuel of Satan that killed babies with it's particulates and the price had shot up.

MallyGirl

Thanks all for the range of viewpoints.

Astria

Deleted_User said:

EssexHebridean said:

diystarter7 said:

I asked a few months back about SM's. The overwhelming consensus was 'avoid at all costs.'

I was worried about being penalised for using fuel during peak periods via higher rates between certain hours EG, 6am and 10 am and then 4 to 7pm etc. I can see it happening so a no thanks from me.

TOU tariffs are definitely the way ahead - with those with SM's having the advantage of the cheaper rates at off peak times, and those who are still determined to resist probably paying those higher rates 24/7... Those (even) higher energy bills will make it every so tricky to afford the tin-foil for the hats... 

This is the aspect that I find utterly alarming. 

We are supposed to live in a free country. Yet you are talking about a country where people that refuse to comply with energy companies (who make massive profits) cannot have access to energy. At least in the stone ages everyone had access to fire, but even that is legislated against for many.

You are going to hate it then when the only way of getting electric to your house is via a smart meter which must communicate back to base at regular intervals or it could switch off your supply, and even more so when in 2035 gas boilers are to be banned as everyone should have a heat pump by then.
Saying that, it was funny when thousands of people had their hive heating forcibly turned upto 30c because of a computer 'glitch' and couldn't turn it back down without disconnecting it from the internet (personally I think it was more a hack than a glitch but I've no evidence of that)

brewerdave

Astria said:

Deleted_User said:

EssexHebridean said:

diystarter7 said:

I asked a few months back about SM's. The overwhelming consensus was 'avoid at all costs.'

I was worried about being penalised for using fuel during peak periods via higher rates between certain hours EG, 6am and 10 am and then 4 to 7pm etc. I can see it happening so a no thanks from me.

TOU tariffs are definitely the way ahead - with those with SM's having the advantage of the cheaper rates at off peak times, and those who are still determined to resist probably paying those higher rates 24/7... Those (even) higher energy bills will make it every so tricky to afford the tin-foil for the hats... 

This is the aspect that I find utterly alarming. 

We are supposed to live in a free country. Yet you are talking about a country where people that refuse to comply with energy companies (who make massive profits) cannot have access to energy. At least in the stone ages everyone had access to fire, but even that is legislated against for many.

You are going to hate it then when the only way of getting electric to your house is via a smart meter which must communicate back to base at regular intervals or it could switch off your supply, and even more so when in 2035 gas boilers are to be banned as everyone should have a heat pump by then.
Saying that, it was funny when thousands of people had their hive heating forcibly turned upto 30c because of a computer 'glitch' and couldn't turn it back down without disconnecting it from the internet (personally I think it was more a hack than a glitch but I've no evidence of that)

Looking very unlikely to be achieved - a small minority of the populace will be in a position to afford the capital cost themselves and even with huge Govt. subsidies (very unlikely in the near future), the heat pump industry won't be scaled up fast enuf to produce the machines needed

EssexHebridean

Deleted_User said:

EssexHebridean said:

diystarter7 said:

I asked a few months back about SM's. The overwhelming consensus was 'avoid at all costs.'

I was worried about being penalised for using fuel during peak periods via higher rates between certain hours EG, 6am and 10 am and then 4 to 7pm etc. I can see it happening so a no thanks from me.

TOU tariffs are definitely the way ahead - with those with SM's having the advantage of the cheaper rates at off peak times, and those who are still determined to resist probably paying those higher rates 24/7... Those (even) higher energy bills will make it every so tricky to afford the tin-foil for the hats... 

This is the aspect that I find utterly alarming. 

We are supposed to live in a free country. Yet you are talking about a country where people that refuse to comply with energy companies (who make massive profits) cannot have access to energy. At least in the stone ages everyone had access to fire, but even that is legislated against for many.

You are talking about a scenario where people that (for very valid reasons) don't trust Smart Meters and don't trust big, profit making corporations - are denied access to energy needed to keep them alive. What is more, they will be punished for their dissent with an unavoidable 'tax' (aka standing charge) that they simply cannot avoid. And what happens if the demands from the energy companies/government continue - what if they demand something that you DON'T agree with. You may well trust the current government and the current energy companies. But there is no telling who owns the energy companies (and controls the smart meters) further down the line. Once you allow the mechanism of so much centralized control to be installed there is no going back. 

I agree that this is the trajectory that we're on. And people need to realize that the incentives (cash payments, cheap tariffs) come at a heavy price. Some will be willing to accept that price. Others won't.

No - I'm not talking about either of those things - please stop putting words into people's mouths. 

Ps - energy supply companies are certainly not making "massive profit" - far from it at the moment, in fact.