HMRC Records of savings interest and self-assessment

intalex

eskbanker said:

intalex said:

Just had a related question to this topic - what if someone's only income was savings interest and there was no tax code to adjust, is there a way they could find out the total interest for a tax year directly from HMRC? TIA

It ought to be visible within the online personal tax account, or, for those who are particularly resilient and persistent, they may disclose that information by phone.  It wouldn't matter if there was ultimately no income tax liability (i.e. up to £18,570), or if there was then HMRC would request a manual payment - obviously HMRC's role is to collect tax rather than to act as a record-keeper for savers!

Honestly, I moved around so much in the 22/23 tax year that I skipped keeping records. I'm certain the total is well below £18,570 but I still feel they'll expect a reasonable ball-park to be put in my self-assessment, else I could have just put in £18,570 in my tax return (it does yield zero liability). Whatever consolidated record they hold for me for that tax year will be good enough for the purpose of the self assessment.

I'm trying (belatedly) to put together the 23/24 records though...

eskbanker

intalex said:

eskbanker said:

intalex said:

Just had a related question to this topic - what if someone's only income was savings interest and there was no tax code to adjust, is there a way they could find out the total interest for a tax year directly from HMRC? TIA

It ought to be visible within the online personal tax account, or, for those who are particularly resilient and persistent, they may disclose that information by phone.  It wouldn't matter if there was ultimately no income tax liability (i.e. up to £18,570), or if there was then HMRC would request a manual payment - obviously HMRC's role is to collect tax rather than to act as a record-keeper for savers!

Honestly, I moved around so much in the 22/23 tax year that I skipped keeping records. I'm certain the total is well below £18,570 but I still feel they'll expect a reasonable ball-park to be put in my self-assessment, else I could have just put in £18,570 in my tax return (it does yield zero liability). Whatever consolidated record they hold for me for that tax year will be good enough for the purpose of the self assessment.

I'm trying (belatedly) to put together the 23/24 records though...

Ah, I didn't realise that you were asking in the context of self-assessment, which obviously requires you to declare your income!  When you say you moved around so much, do you mean moving house and mislaying paperwork, or shifting money between different providers?  Either way round, the onus is on you to keep sufficient records to make an accurate declaration, so you'll need to dig into your emails, correspondence, etc, to recreate what's been lost....

Edit: having said that, see https://www.gov.uk/keeping-your-pay-tax-records

Lost or destroyed records

Try to get copies of as much as you can, for example ask banks for copies of statements or suppliers for duplicate invoices.

You can use ‘provisional’ or ‘estimated’ figures if you cannot recreate all your records. You must use the ‘Any other information’ box on the tax return to say that this is what you’re doing.

‘Provisional’ means you’ll be able to get paperwork to confirm your figures later. ‘Estimated’ means you will not be able to confirm the figures.

You may have to pay interest and penalties if your figures turn out to be wrong and you have not paid enough tax.

Dazed_and_C0nfused

intalex said:

Just had a related question to this topic - what if someone's only income was savings interest and there was no tax code to adjust, is there a way they could find out the total interest for a tax year directly from HMRC? TIA

You can ask HMRC for the details they have recorded for you but that isn't guaranteed to be the same as the amount you should declare on your Self Assessment return.

Banks and building societies have until 30 June after the end of the tax year to file the interest details with HMRC so they probably have the information available now but that doesn't necessarily mean every institution has filed on time!

intalex

Dazed_and_C0nfused said:

intalex said:

Just had a related question to this topic - what if someone's only income was savings interest and there was no tax code to adjust, is there a way they could find out the total interest for a tax year directly from HMRC? TIA

You can ask HMRC for the details they have recorded for you but that isn't guaranteed to be the same as the amount you should declare on your Self Assessment return.

Banks and building societies have until 30 June after the end of the tax year to file the interest details with HMRC so they probably have the information available now but that doesn't necessarily mean every institution has filed on time!

I think I will have to do that, but in my 22/23 online tax year summary it says they're still calculating the tax due and this process completes anywhere between June and October, so will allow October to pass before I check again online and/or contact them.

eskbanker said:

Ah, I didn't realise that you were asking in the context of self-assessment, which obviously requires you to declare your income!  When you say you moved around so much, do you mean moving house and mislaying paperwork, or shifting money between different providers?

Moved funds around, opened/closed accounts all over the place, including some cooling off periods (with some interest earned), being a proper MSE, etc... 

eskbanker

intalex said:

Moved funds around, opened/closed accounts all over the place, including some cooling off periods (with some interest earned), being a proper MSE, etc... 

But you can presumably pull together a list of which institutions you've dealt with, even if it takes a bit of detective work, and from there, ask them for tax certificates or the equivalent, which is clearly what HMRC expects you to do ("ask banks for copies of statements")?

Dazed_and_C0nfused

intalex said:

Dazed_and_C0nfused said:

intalex said:

Just had a related question to this topic - what if someone's only income was savings interest and there was no tax code to adjust, is there a way they could find out the total interest for a tax year directly from HMRC? TIA

You can ask HMRC for the details they have recorded for you but that isn't guaranteed to be the same as the amount you should declare on your Self Assessment return.

Banks and building societies have until 30 June after the end of the tax year to file the interest details with HMRC so they probably have the information available now but that doesn't necessarily mean every institution has filed on time!

I think I will have to do that, but in my 22/23 online tax year summary it says they're still calculating the tax due and this process completes anywhere between June and October, so will allow October to pass before I check again online and/or contact them.

eskbanker said:

Ah, I didn't realise that you were asking in the context of self-assessment, which obviously requires you to declare your income!  When you say you moved around so much, do you mean moving house and mislaying paperwork, or shifting money between different providers?

Moved funds around, opened/closed accounts all over the place, including some cooling off periods (with some interest earned), being a proper MSE, etc... 

That doesn't apply to you in the normal sense.

All that will happen is your PAYE account will be cleared on the basis that no calculation is due as you are completing a Self Assessment return.

Self Assessment will always have priority and negate the need for a PAYE calculation to be performed.

https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/paye-manual/paye93005

intalex

eskbanker said:

But you can presumably pull together a list of which institutions you've dealt with, even if it takes a bit of detective work, and from there, ask them for tax certificates or the equivalent, which is clearly what HMRC expects you to do ("ask banks for copies of statements")?

When you know HMRC will have a number (right or wrong) and you know that number is well below £18,570 it is so much easier to try persist with them first instead of going down memory lane and then contacting 10-15 different banks... I know it's my responsibility to have done so, but... if they have a number, then I have to try, right?

eskbanker

intalex said:

eskbanker said:

But you can presumably pull together a list of which institutions you've dealt with, even if it takes a bit of detective work, and from there, ask them for tax certificates or the equivalent, which is clearly what HMRC expects you to do ("ask banks for copies of statements")?

When you know HMRC will have a number (right or wrong) and you know that number is well below £18,570 it is so much easier to try persist with them first instead of going down memory lane and then contacting 10-15 different banks... I know it's my responsibility to have done so, but... if they have a number, then I have to try, right?

I'm sure there are many on here who will have collated interest data from significantly more than 10-15 banks, and if you were able and willing to set up accounts with these, fund them, and eventually close them, then it can hardly be considered unduly onerous to get hold of a tax certificate from those where you no longer have access to the data directly?

Albermarle

intalex said:

eskbanker said:

intalex said:

Just had a related question to this topic - what if someone's only income was savings interest and there was no tax code to adjust, is there a way they could find out the total interest for a tax year directly from HMRC? TIA

It ought to be visible within the online personal tax account, or, for those who are particularly resilient and persistent, they may disclose that information by phone.  It wouldn't matter if there was ultimately no income tax liability (i.e. up to £18,570), or if there was then HMRC would request a manual payment - obviously HMRC's role is to collect tax rather than to act as a record-keeper for savers!

Honestly, I moved around so much in the 22/23 tax year that I skipped keeping records. I'm certain the total is well below £18,570 but I still feel they'll expect a reasonable ball-park to be put in my self-assessment, else I could have just put in £18,570 in my tax return (it does yield zero liability). Whatever consolidated record they hold for me for that tax year will be good enough for the purpose of the self assessment.

I'm trying (belatedly) to put together the 23/24 records though...

What is the reason you are having to fill in a self assessment tax return ?

intalex

Albermarle said:

What is the reason you are having to fill in a self assessment tax return ?

I had an email from HMRC suggesting I do so, and an option on my online account as well (after 20/21 and 21/22 were both skipped). I had a jump in my interest in the 22/23 year and also paid the non-earner £2,880 net into my pension (something I regrettably hadn't in the prior 2 tax years), so either of these 2 things could have triggered the email suggestion.

Anyway, I totally get my responsibilities and clearly am looking for a bit of a let-off, especially in the knowledge that the impact will be nil (given my interest is miles below £18,570). I will try get hold of the HMRC figure this one time, and get my act together for 23/24 onward...