HMRC Records of savings interest and self-assessment

isasmurf

dosh37 said:

frugalmacdugal said:

Hi,

most providers give an annual interest statement at end of tax year, either paper or online.

'Most' is not good enough. It should be mandatory - especially since savers can end up being fined for getting it wrong.

It is mandatory when it is requested. It stopped being mandatory to provide everyone with a certificate because the majority of people with accounts don't require it. 

RG2015

isasmurf said:

Wheres_My_Cashback said:

Rheumatoid said:

Is it still possible to view what savings interest details HMRC hold? I can't find it anywhere.

Also, I now need to register for self-assessment. Do I need to enter all of my savings interest details or is it populated from their records and I just need to check?

Thanks

HMRC, until 2-3 years ago had a Beta site where you could view your reported savings accounts and update online with interest accrued, expected and advise them of closed accounts. It didn't work alongside their other platforms or operating procedures so it was removed.

I don't know what you mean by It didn't work alongside their other platforms or operating procedures so it was removed. It was part of the personal tax account and tax code calculation. 

For those that want to go back and reminisce, this is the thread discussing it. 

Epic thread. 

dosh37

masonic said:

dosh37 said:

wmb194 said:

Zuzi said:

This may be a dumb question, but how do you know how much interest you earned, especially with multiple providers and moving savings around during the year?

Easy, you look at your statement and make a note of it. I use MS Money to keep track and produce reports for me.

I disagree! Many online savings providers prevent you from logging in after closing an account. Unless you save the tax information beforehand then the data is no longer available. All savings providers should send a closing tax statement THROUGH THE POST on account closure.

The money has to end up somewhere, so you should be able to account for it among your remaining bank accounts. Providers will issue an interest summary on request, but few send these out automatically because most people aren't on self-assessment. Those who are do have a responsibility to keep their own records as it is the taxpayer's responsibility to ensure the details they provide are accurate.

"it is the taxpayer's responsibility to ensure the details they provide are accurate."

This makes no sense when HMRC already know how much interest the tax payer has received and hence how much he/she owes. If HMRC cant't figure this out then they deserve to get screwed if people give incorrect information because savings organisations fail to supply the necessary information.

masonic

dosh37 said:

masonic said:

dosh37 said:

wmb194 said:

Zuzi said:

This may be a dumb question, but how do you know how much interest you earned, especially with multiple providers and moving savings around during the year?

Easy, you look at your statement and make a note of it. I use MS Money to keep track and produce reports for me.

I disagree! Many online savings providers prevent you from logging in after closing an account. Unless you save the tax information beforehand then the data is no longer available. All savings providers should send a closing tax statement THROUGH THE POST on account closure.

The money has to end up somewhere, so you should be able to account for it among your remaining bank accounts. Providers will issue an interest summary on request, but few send these out automatically because most people aren't on self-assessment. Those who are do have a responsibility to keep their own records as it is the taxpayer's responsibility to ensure the details they provide are accurate.

"it is the taxpayer's responsibility to ensure the details they provide are accurate."

This makes no sense when HMRC already know how much interest the tax payer has received and hence how much he/she owes. If HMRC cant't figure this out then they deserve to get screwed if people give incorrect information because savings organisations fail to supply the necessary information.

HMRC doesn't know how much interest the tax payer has received. They obtain data from banks, but this isn't complete, and there are various classes of interest that aren't reported, including interest from gilts, corporate bonds, offshore funds, property income distributions, P2P investing and even HL Active Savings. It is always the taxpayers responsibility to know and declare their position, and should someone give incorrect information to HMRC, then they will be liable for any tax and penalties they incur, as well as risking prosecution should they try to defraud HMRC.

RG2015

masonic said:

dosh37 said:

masonic said:

dosh37 said:

wmb194 said:

Zuzi said:

This may be a dumb question, but how do you know how much interest you earned, especially with multiple providers and moving savings around during the year?

Easy, you look at your statement and make a note of it. I use MS Money to keep track and produce reports for me.

I disagree! Many online savings providers prevent you from logging in after closing an account. Unless you save the tax information beforehand then the data is no longer available. All savings providers should send a closing tax statement THROUGH THE POST on account closure.

The money has to end up somewhere, so you should be able to account for it among your remaining bank accounts. Providers will issue an interest summary on request, but few send these out automatically because most people aren't on self-assessment. Those who are do have a responsibility to keep their own records as it is the taxpayer's responsibility to ensure the details they provide are accurate.

"it is the taxpayer's responsibility to ensure the details they provide are accurate."

This makes no sense when HMRC already know how much interest the tax payer has received and hence how much he/she owes. If HMRC cant't figure this out then they deserve to get screwed if people give incorrect information because savings organisations fail to supply the necessary information.

HMRC doesn't know how much interest the tax payer has received. They obtain data from banks, but this isn't complete, and there are various classes of interest that aren't reported, including interest from gilts, corporate bonds, offshore funds, property interest distributions, P2P investing and even HL Active Savings. It is always the taxpayers responsibility to know and declare their position, and should someone give incorrect information to HMRC, then they will be liable for any tax and penalties they incur, as well as risking prosecution should they try to defraud HMRC.

I am not questioning that this is the taxpayer’s responsibility. If HMRC make a mistake then I would be the one to suffer.

However, excluding the exceptions, most people’s interest received should be reported to HMRC. The problem is their flawed system that makes ridiculous estimates for the current tax year which is not corrected for at least a year thereafter.

HMRC should be held to a higher standard. We, on this site, mock their ineptitude but have to constantly monitor their actions.

If I started a business that constantly made mistakes but was able to blame the customer I would not last very long.

masonic

RG2015 said:

masonic said:

dosh37 said:

masonic said:

dosh37 said:

wmb194 said:

Zuzi said:

This may be a dumb question, but how do you know how much interest you earned, especially with multiple providers and moving savings around during the year?

Easy, you look at your statement and make a note of it. I use MS Money to keep track and produce reports for me.

I disagree! Many online savings providers prevent you from logging in after closing an account. Unless you save the tax information beforehand then the data is no longer available. All savings providers should send a closing tax statement THROUGH THE POST on account closure.

The money has to end up somewhere, so you should be able to account for it among your remaining bank accounts. Providers will issue an interest summary on request, but few send these out automatically because most people aren't on self-assessment. Those who are do have a responsibility to keep their own records as it is the taxpayer's responsibility to ensure the details they provide are accurate.

"it is the taxpayer's responsibility to ensure the details they provide are accurate."

This makes no sense when HMRC already know how much interest the tax payer has received and hence how much he/she owes. If HMRC cant't figure this out then they deserve to get screwed if people give incorrect information because savings organisations fail to supply the necessary information.

HMRC doesn't know how much interest the tax payer has received. They obtain data from banks, but this isn't complete, and there are various classes of interest that aren't reported, including interest from gilts, corporate bonds, offshore funds, property interest distributions, P2P investing and even HL Active Savings. It is always the taxpayers responsibility to know and declare their position, and should someone give incorrect information to HMRC, then they will be liable for any tax and penalties they incur, as well as risking prosecution should they try to defraud HMRC.

I am not questioning that this is the taxpayer’s responsibility. If HMRC make a mistake then I would be the one to suffer.

However, excluding the exceptions, most people’s interest received should be reported to HMRC. The problem is their flawed system that makes ridiculous estimates for the current tax year which is not corrected for at least a year thereafter.

HMRC should be held to a higher standard. We, on this site, mock their ineptitude but have to constantly monitor their actions.

If I started a business that constantly made mistakes but was able to blame the customer I would not last very long.

This is the reason why I'm staying on Self Assessment for as long as possible. The tax code shenanigans don't affect those on SA that pay the tax owed directly rather than have it collected via PAYE.

RG2015

masonic said:

RG2015 said:

masonic said:

dosh37 said:

masonic said:

dosh37 said:

wmb194 said:

Zuzi said:

This may be a dumb question, but how do you know how much interest you earned, especially with multiple providers and moving savings around during the year?

Easy, you look at your statement and make a note of it. I use MS Money to keep track and produce reports for me.

I disagree! Many online savings providers prevent you from logging in after closing an account. Unless you save the tax information beforehand then the data is no longer available. All savings providers should send a closing tax statement THROUGH THE POST on account closure.

The money has to end up somewhere, so you should be able to account for it among your remaining bank accounts. Providers will issue an interest summary on request, but few send these out automatically because most people aren't on self-assessment. Those who are do have a responsibility to keep their own records as it is the taxpayer's responsibility to ensure the details they provide are accurate.

"it is the taxpayer's responsibility to ensure the details they provide are accurate."

This makes no sense when HMRC already know how much interest the tax payer has received and hence how much he/she owes. If HMRC cant't figure this out then they deserve to get screwed if people give incorrect information because savings organisations fail to supply the necessary information.

HMRC doesn't know how much interest the tax payer has received. They obtain data from banks, but this isn't complete, and there are various classes of interest that aren't reported, including interest from gilts, corporate bonds, offshore funds, property interest distributions, P2P investing and even HL Active Savings. It is always the taxpayers responsibility to know and declare their position, and should someone give incorrect information to HMRC, then they will be liable for any tax and penalties they incur, as well as risking prosecution should they try to defraud HMRC.

I am not questioning that this is the taxpayer’s responsibility. If HMRC make a mistake then I would be the one to suffer.

However, excluding the exceptions, most people’s interest received should be reported to HMRC. The problem is their flawed system that makes ridiculous estimates for the current tax year which is not corrected for at least a year thereafter.

HMRC should be held to a higher standard. We, on this site, mock their ineptitude but have to constantly monitor their actions.

If I started a business that constantly made mistakes but was able to blame the customer I would not last very long.

This is the reason why I'm staying on Self Assessment for as long as possible. The tax code shenanigans don't affect those on SA that pay the tax owed directly rather than have it collected via PAYE.

I was on SA from 1996 to 2004 when they took me off it. I can still see these years online plus y/e April 2022, although this is blank.

I could probably go back on but see no point. I know how their system works and remain in total control.

Unlike many others I have no problem with workarounds. This world is so full of rubbish systems and service that I just find a way to make it work for me.

It is not right so I will have the occasional moan but that is mostly gratuitous.

PS. I just noticed today that my PTA has been updated for y/e Apr 2022 as follows.

6 April 2021 to 5 April 2022

You paid the right amount of tax

There is nothing more to pay for this year.

I wonder if this augers well for their ongoing bank interest estimates for 22/23 and 23/24

masonic

RG2015 said:

masonic said:

RG2015 said:

masonic said:

dosh37 said:

masonic said:

dosh37 said:

wmb194 said:

Zuzi said:

This may be a dumb question, but how do you know how much interest you earned, especially with multiple providers and moving savings around during the year?

Easy, you look at your statement and make a note of it. I use MS Money to keep track and produce reports for me.

I disagree! Many online savings providers prevent you from logging in after closing an account. Unless you save the tax information beforehand then the data is no longer available. All savings providers should send a closing tax statement THROUGH THE POST on account closure.

The money has to end up somewhere, so you should be able to account for it among your remaining bank accounts. Providers will issue an interest summary on request, but few send these out automatically because most people aren't on self-assessment. Those who are do have a responsibility to keep their own records as it is the taxpayer's responsibility to ensure the details they provide are accurate.

"it is the taxpayer's responsibility to ensure the details they provide are accurate."

This makes no sense when HMRC already know how much interest the tax payer has received and hence how much he/she owes. If HMRC cant't figure this out then they deserve to get screwed if people give incorrect information because savings organisations fail to supply the necessary information.

HMRC doesn't know how much interest the tax payer has received. They obtain data from banks, but this isn't complete, and there are various classes of interest that aren't reported, including interest from gilts, corporate bonds, offshore funds, property interest distributions, P2P investing and even HL Active Savings. It is always the taxpayers responsibility to know and declare their position, and should someone give incorrect information to HMRC, then they will be liable for any tax and penalties they incur, as well as risking prosecution should they try to defraud HMRC.

I am not questioning that this is the taxpayer’s responsibility. If HMRC make a mistake then I would be the one to suffer.

However, excluding the exceptions, most people’s interest received should be reported to HMRC. The problem is their flawed system that makes ridiculous estimates for the current tax year which is not corrected for at least a year thereafter.

HMRC should be held to a higher standard. We, on this site, mock their ineptitude but have to constantly monitor their actions.

If I started a business that constantly made mistakes but was able to blame the customer I would not last very long.

This is the reason why I'm staying on Self Assessment for as long as possible. The tax code shenanigans don't affect those on SA that pay the tax owed directly rather than have it collected via PAYE.

I was on SA from 1996 to 2004 when they took me off it. I can still see these years online plus y/e April 2022, although this is blank.

I could probably go back on but see no point. I know how their system works and remain in total control.

Unlike many others I have no problem with workarounds. This world is so full of rubbish systems and service that I just find a way to make it work for me.

It is not right so I will have the occasional moan but that is mostly gratuitous.

PS. I just noticed today that my PTA has been updated for y/e Apr 2022 as follows.

6 April 2021 to 5 April 2022

You paid the right amount of tax

There is nothing more to pay for this year.

I wonder if this augers well for their ongoing bank interest estimates for 22/23 and 23/24

Could you share the workarounds you mention that allow you to remain in total control? If there was a way I could ensure that I wasn't paying tax in advance that I did not owe, I would not have a problem with the current system. Can it be done through the PTA?

Going back on SA is not an option for most. You have to meet eligibility criteria. I haven't been eligible to self-assess for over 5 years, but HMRC haven't caught up with me yet as they did Albermarle.

Sensory

I actually didn't realise HMRC approached this with estimates. So for those of us ineligible for Self Assessment who manage our money down to the very last penny, we have to settle for never being up-to-date, always waiting for their systems to (hopefully) correctly calculate the tax owed on savings interests, having our tax codes constantly changed based on estimates that will inevitably lead to a never-ending cycle of late adjustments and corrections.

Dazed_and_C0nfused

Sensory said:

I actually didn't realise HMRC approached this with estimates. So for those of us ineligible for Self Assessment who manage our money down to the very last penny, we have to settle for never being up-to-date, always waiting for their systems to (hopefully) correctly calculate the tax owed on savings interests, having our tax codes constantly changed based on estimates that will inevitably lead to a never-ending cycle of late adjustments and corrections.

That is basically how the PAYE tax system has worked for time immemorial though.

Say you received interest of £1,200 in the 2021:22 tax year.  HMRC will use that when reviewing the 2021:22 tax year and also use it when reviewing your 2022:23 tax code.  And when calculating your tax code for 2023:24.

In the summer/autumn of 2023 they should have received the actual figures for 2022:23 from the banks and building societies (but not HL it seems!).  And will use that data to finalise 2022:23.  And also when reviewing your 2023:24 tax code.  And also when calculating your tax code for 2024:25.

By including the previous years actual amount as an estimate when calculating the current tax years code it means a lot of people will pay broadly the correct amount of tax and don't need to be notified of any adjustment after the end of the tax year as HMRC don't routinely collect small amounts owed to them or repay small amounts of overpaid tax.

In the current climate of sudden fairly large increases in interest rates there will inevitably be more people owing tax once the 2022:23 figures are supplied by the banks and building societies.  But I suspect most people would prefer that than have HMRC make a different arbitrary adjustment during the current tax year?  Say they decided interest rates have on average increased by 50%.  Should they use £1,800 rather than £1,200 when calculating the current years tax code?  My average interest rates have only increased by c25% (bad timing on my part 😢) so that wouldn't be good for me.

There is no perfect system and I think the majority of the gripes on this thread aren't about that part of the estimation system but are from people who have chosen to provide their own figures ahead of the banks reporting and they have subsequently been ignored for some reason.