Full & Final Settlement Advice Please

Firefarie71

Hello all,

Im looking for some advice on offering a !!!!!!.

I'm currently in a DMP with Stepchange.

I recently inherited a lump sum  which I want to use for a !!!!!!.

The largest debts are managed by PRA Group and total £9000. I have asked for CCAs from the creditors and they have not been supplied. They sent generic ones that do not have my details or signature on them. The defaults for these debts drop off credit file between March and Nov next year. 

The lump sum is £4000. Attributed to the debt that is just under %50. 

What I would like to know is should I go in with a lower offer? Would 30% be reasonable? My mum sadly passed away and that is how I have inherited this. I have been on the DMP since 2017 and already paid off £8.5k of what I owe.

I just want this debt cleared but it would be nice to put a little of what I inherited for emergencies. 

Any advice woukd be most appreciated

Thank you 

flipflopflo

The PRA group are notorious for not offering much if anything in discounts. From reading the boards you’d be very lucky to get a 10% reduction. 

If they can’t produce the correct paperwork then I believe that makes the debt unenforceable but I’ll let others tell you what that might mean for you as I’m not a 100%. 

fatbelly

I'm interested in what word you are using that is triggering the swear filter. Is it F&F ? (clearly not)

Anyway, if they have responded to your cca request with a properly reconstructed agreement, that complies with the Act.

I personally think 30% is reasonable, as they will have paid less than that for the debt. Make sure you state that the money is coming from a third party.

I suspect they will not accept that. In which case the 4k is still all available as a lump sum and you continue with the dmp.

Put it somewhere sensible (should be able to get 5% interest on that) and try again in 6 months.

DjangoUnchained

my experience with pra is best to ignore them unless they can produce the agreement, theyve left me alone for two years, in a years time it will be statute barred.

Firefarie71

Thanks all. @DjangoUnchained @flipflopflo @fatbelly I wasn't swearing. I was using an abbreviation of F  F  S  PRA sent me a generic blank CCA from Barclaycard that dosnt have my name or signature in it, so I assume this isn't my CCA, so the debt isn't enforceable? For MBNA debt the CCA text on the copy is so tiny I couldn't read it. I had to take a picture of it from my phone to magnify it to read it. It does have my name at the top and a tick at the bottom as a digital signature. I'm not sure if the CCA is enforceable seeing as it can't be read with naked eye.

Both cover etters do not say the debt is or isn't enforable. They just state to contact them within 14 days to arrange settlement. I have continued paying via my DMP. 

I haven't contacted them but wonder if it's worth writing if these dates aren't enforceable to dispute they haven't provided the correct paperwork? 

fatbelly

Ah that makes sense F&F is acceptable, !!!!!! ins't 

You could certainly assert that the documents don't comply, and stop paying.

They would have to get a court to rule on that

For info a reconstructed agreement must follow FCA guidance:

The copy agreement

CONC 13.1.4 G 01/07/2014 RP

1. (1) 

   The copy of the executed agreement should be a 'true copy' of the original. However, as confirmed in the case of Carey v HSBC Bank plc [2009] EWHC 3417 (QB), in this context the term 'true copy' does not necessarily mean a carbon, photocopy, microfiche copy or other exact copy of the signed agreement. There is no obligation to provide a copy which includes a copy of the signature.

2. (2) 

   The firm can reconstitute a copy. It can do this by re-populating a template of the relevant agreement form with the details of the specific agreement taken from its records. If the firm does provide a reconstituted copy, it should explain that that is what it has done, to avoid misleading the customer that this is a contemporaneous copy.

3. (3) 

   The terms and conditions should be those applicable at the time the agreement was executed. The name and address at the time of execution must be included.

4. (4) 

   The reconstituted agreement should contain a heading prescribed by the CCA and any relevant cancellation notice.

5. (5) 

   If the reason why no copy is given in response to a request under these sections is that there never was an executed agreement, the firm should acknowledge this in its response.

6. (6) 

   If the agreement has been varied, the duty is to provide not only a copy of the agreement as originally executed but also either:

   1. (a) 

      a copy of the latest variation given in accordance with section 82(1) of the CCA relating to each discrete term of the agreement which has been varied; or,

   2. (b) 

      a clear statement of the terms of the agreement as varied.

7. (7) 

   Further, section 180(1)(b) of the CCA and regulation 3(2) of the Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983 expressly allow certain matters to be omitted from the copy. There may be excluded from the copy of the executed agreement to be provided under these sections:

   1. (a) 

      any information relating to the borrower, hirer or surety, or information included for the use of the lender or owner only, which is not required to be included by the CCA or by any regulations made under the CCA as to the form and content of the agreement;

   2. (b) 

      any signature box, signature or date of signature;

   3. (c) 

      in the case of pawn agreements, any description of the article taken in pawn.

Firefarie71

Thanks @fatbelly . If I stop paying, will this this terminate my DMP with stepchange or do I just ask them to remove PRA because I feel the debt isn't enforceable? What would worse case sceaniro be if they take me to court? And can court action be taken after the default drops off and the debt becomes more than 6 years old? 

fatbelly

I suspect stepchange won't be happy if you ask to take PRA out. You could ask them but you may need to run this as a do-it-yourself plan if you wanted to exclude them

If PRA started a claim, you would defend it. Worst case is that you lose and get a ccj

PRA can start a claim. It doesn't mean they would.

I think you're asking if the debt would become statute barred 6 years after the default. Not in your case. Because you have been acknowledging the debt by payment, it would not become statute barred until 6 years after the final payment.

Firefarie71

@fatbelly Thank you. I think I will look at offering them a F F S at 30% and see what they say. I have another 8 years before I pay off the debt if I stay on the DMP. I may focus on my other debts that are smaller and total 4k and maybe pay those off with  F F S. At least that reduces my debt 

fatbelly

Yes, that makes sense. 

If anyone accepts your settlement offer, pay them off and stop the payments to them. 

From what you said earlier it sounds like the old Barclaycard debt doesn't have a compliant cca but with the MBNA one if you can enlarge it and read it, it's likely that a judge would also be able to do that, and if it is the actual agreement that you originally signed then that one would be enforceable.

It'll be interesting to see if PRA are happier to negotiate on one compared to the other

Firefarie71

@fatbelly Thanks. I am going to hang  on a bit longer until the new year and then make an offer. I'll come back and update