Full & Final Settlement Advice Please

Firefarie71

Thanks @fatbelly

Should I give PRA the opportunity to provide a legible CCA for the MBNA debt or just stop paying that too, stating that I don't consider the debt enforceable because that CCA can't be read?

I'm going to stop paying when I know if I can settle the link debts are they are the only other debts on my DMP.  

sourcrates

dollparts71 said:

Thanks @fatbelly

Should I give PRA the opportunity to provide a legible CCA for the MBNA debt or just stop paying that too, stating that I don't consider the debt enforceable because that CCA can't be read?

I'm going to stop paying when I know if I can settle the link debts are they are the only other debts on my DMP.  

Its unlikely they will be able to improve on what they originally sent you, as its not PRA who hold such information, that is always retained by the original creditor, throw the dice, see where it lands.

You are correct, any copy agreement sent in response to a CCA request MUST be legible, its no good if you cannot read it (there is case law to support this).

sourcrates

I found this response to an illegible credit agreement being provided by Arrow Global from a few years ago.

Makes interesting reading, some of the points raised may no longer be applicable, but it will give you some idea of how to formulate a response to PRA Group -


Dear Arrow Global,

Reference: Lloyds Banks Plc ( xxxxxxxx )

Thank you for your letter dated 29/11/2018 and the attached copy of the credit agreement relating to the above account. No acknowledgement of the above debt is made.

I am somewhat confused by your letter ;

Firstly the account detailed above appears to be a Credit Card account which is classified as a running-account credit agreement and falls under section 78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, not section 77 as detailed in your letter.

Secondly the copy of the agreement that you have enclosed consists of a single sheet, which appears to be an application, and which is, in the majority, illegible. The agreement is also incomplete and does not contain the prescribed terms pursuant to Schedule 6 of the Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983, nor does it appear to be properly executed pursuant to s.61 CCA 1974.

In addition, your letter states that you have previously sent " a copy of the terms and conditions " and " a copy of the originators statement". I'm afraid that I have not received these documents so if you could resend them it would be appreciated.

You also discuss, at length, the OFT guidance on Unenforceable Credit Agreements with regards to 'reconstituted agreements' however You have not provided a reconstitued agreement, which would be helpful as the document you have provided is illegible.

For the avoidance of doubt I have copied the relevant paragraphs of section 78 for your reference below;

78 Duty to give information to debtor under running-account credit agreement.

(1)The creditor under a regulated agreement for running-account credit, within the prescribed period after receiving a request in writing to that effect from the debtor and payment of a fee of [£1], shall give the debtor a copy of the executed agreement (if any) and of any other document referred to in it, together with a statement signed by or on behalf of the creditor showing, according to the information to which it is practicable for him to refer,—

(a)the state of the account, and

(b)the amount, if any currently payable under the agreement by the debtor to the creditor, and

(c)the amounts and due dates of any payments which, if the debtor does not draw further on the account, will later become payable under the agreement by the debtor to the creditor.

(2)If the creditor possesses insufficient information to enable him to ascertain the amounts and dates mentioned in subsection (1)(c), he shall be taken to comply with that paragraph if his statement under subsection (1) gives the basis on which, under the regulated agreement, they would fall to be ascertained.

4)Where running-account credit is provided under a regulated agreement, the creditor shall give the debtor statements in the prescribed form, and with the prescribed contents—

(a)showing according to the information to which it is practicable for him to refer, the state of the account at regular intervals of not more than twelve months, and

(b)where the agreement provides, in relation to specified periods, for the making of payments by the debtor, or the charging against him of interest or any other sum, showing according to the information to which it is practicable for him to refer the state of the account at the end of each of those periods during which there is any movement in the account.

(6)If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1)—

(a)he is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement

I look forward to receiving the documents pursuant to my formal request. You will be aware that the current position is that your failure to comply with section 78(1) has the consequence that you are not entitled to enforce the agreement.

You will recall that I was sent a Letter of Claim back in February 2018 to which I responded stating I did not know if I owed the alleged debt. I'm afraid that my position has not changed. I requested more information in my response including the agreement, the default notice, the notice of assignment and copies of statements from the original creditor.

I did receive a copy of a statement of periodic account in April 2018 from yourselves showing the last years activity, however as the account apparently defaulted over six years ago, this has not actually given me any further details as to how the amount being claimed has been arrived at.

Until these documents are received so that I am in a position to fully assess any liability I may have to you I shall not be providing any proposal for repayment and you should be aware that any claim brought will be strongly defended.

I look forward to hearing from you.

xxxxxxxxxxxx

I don't know if you do have any other issues that need resolving, if so add those in, eg you require a full breakdown and statements from the original creditor as you do not recognise the amount being requested.

Now, you could at the last paragraph say something like ' in the interests of goodwill I would be open to negotiate a reduced amount settlement" or " In the interests of goodwill, and without any admission of liability, in order to bring this matter to an end, I would be willing to settle this alleged account with a full and final settlement of £2400 payable over 24 months with the first payment of £100 to be made on 28th January 2019 and continuing on the same date each month to a final payment of £100 to be made on 28th December 2020" ( check my maths there - it's 30% on £8000 spilt over 24 months -and only do that kind of offer IF it is affordable and you want to do it to ensure this doesn't go to court )

Firefarie71

Thank you @sourcrates. This is really helpful and I will use this as a template. 

May I ask if I should offer them a settlement figure in instalments or lump sum? I could offer a lump sum as I inherited a small amount when my mum died. I have been paying them in my DMP but was going to stop paying PRA once my link debts are settled. . I was going to write to PRA and say something along the lines of  'you haven't provided correct paperwork.  Until you provide me with the correct paperwork I consider this debt unforceable and will no longer be making payments via my DMP until you are able to produce my CCA. However, as a gesture as goodwill, I offer £2400' I will work into the wording the example above 

I really appreciate the effort you have gone to, to reply. It means a lot 

sourcrates

Settlement offers usually involve lump sum payments.

Some companies, Lowell for example, will accept the lump sum figure paid over a period of time, but in most instances you have to pay in one go.

One other thing, when you do agree a deal, make certain you have it rubber stamped in writing before you part with the cash.

Firefarie71

@sourcrates Yes, I will ensure I'll ask for their acceptance of a settlement in writing.

I have one more question. If I stop paying  PRA via my DMP, will they threaten court action? Do I just ignore this and wait it out until they offer settlement? 

sourcrates

The settlement negotiations may take a while, PRA will likely put your account on hold whilst they respond.

I wouldn’t worry about any further escalation.

Firefarie71

Thank you @sourcrates

I'll pop an update on here and let you know how I get on

Firefarie71

Hi @sourcrates I know it's been a while and wanted to update you, because you'd been so helpful

I was able to settle all my smaller dates via partial settlement offers. Saving 50% on these. 

However, PRA wouldn't play ball. I stopped paying them nearly a year ago now. 

They have sent me a settlement offer of 40% discount on a debt of £200. I'm ignoring it. 

On a larger debt, £3k, they sent a letter recently saying if I didn't contact them, they will pass to one of their debt collection partners..  I'm wondering what this means? Will they sell the debt on? 

The other large debt, again £3k, they haven't written to me about as yet. 

They call me everyday but the number is blocked and I just get voicemails. 

My intention is to continue ignoring them. I now have a mortgage approval as my credit files are now in a good place  

sourcrates

Firefarie71 said:

Hi @sourcrates I know it's been a while and wanted to update you, because you'd been so helpful

On a larger debt, £3k, they sent a letter recently saying if I didn't contact them, they will pass to one of their debt collection partners..  I'm wondering what this means? Will they sell the debt on? 

The other large debt, again £3k, they haven't written to me about as yet. 

That just means they will get another company to try and get the money out of you, another collector.

PRA buy the debts, they also collect them, but occasionally they "farm" them out to other companies to have a go, if their own methods have not been persuasive enough.

They may choose one of the few agencies that still knock on doors, there are a couple of them, they have no more rights than you or I do, but if they send one of them, and you need further advice, feel free to ask.

You can keep this thread alive no problem.