Ruffer not available on my platform

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I've been reading a lot about capital preservation funds lately and believe that they are appropriate for my circumstances. I have been considering investing part of my portfolio in the LF Ruffer Total Return Fund, but it seems that my platform does not carry it. They only have LF Ruffer Diversified Return Acc and 'Ruffer Investment Co Ltd' which I assume is an investment trust. Not sure what to do next. I'm reluctant to change platforms. I have recently added CG Absolute Return and Trojan O, and am happier sticking with funds. Any suggestions would be welcomed  
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  • ApodemusApodemus Forumite
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    Why are you anxious to avoid RICA, which as you say is an Investment Trust?  I've had it in my SIPP (as part of a "wealth preservation" portion of my portfolio) for just over two years and on a Total Return basis, I am currently 32% up on the investment.
  • masonicmasonic Forumite
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    As above, the investment trust will give you virtually the same underlying assets.
  • AgedAged Forumite
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    Apodemus said:
    Why are you anxious to avoid RICA, which as you say is an Investment Trust?  I've had it in my SIPP (as part of a "wealth preservation" portion of my portfolio) for just over two years and on a Total Return basis, I am currently 32% up on the investment.
    I'm a little wary of investment trusts because I don't fully understand them. Also I gather that stamp duty is payable re the investment, and that there is no FSCS cover. 
  • NoviceInvestor1NoviceInvestor1 Forumite
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    Ask your platform to add it. They already carry Ruffer funds so should have no issue getting it on. 
  • aroominyorkaroominyork Forumite
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    I appreciate ITs can appear a little Wild West to conservative investors but it is worth taking a little time to understand them. Yes, they attract 0.5% stamp duty but they generally have lower annual fees than their equivalent OEICs so you might recoup it after a few years. That is the case with Ruffer, although both the OEIC and IT are very expensive at over 1% annual charge. Also, look at the difference in assets – and past performance as a guide to volatility – to see which you prefer; they are not (as per @masonic) almost identical.

  • AlbermarleAlbermarle Forumite
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    Aged said:
    Apodemus said:
    Why are you anxious to avoid RICA, which as you say is an Investment Trust?  I've had it in my SIPP (as part of a "wealth preservation" portion of my portfolio) for just over two years and on a Total Return basis, I am currently 32% up on the investment.
    I'm a little wary of investment trusts because I don't fully understand them. Also I gather that stamp duty is payable re the investment, and that there is no FSCS cover. 
    There is a one off 0.5% stamp duty charge and there will be a charge for buying shares in the trust. Typically £10.
    On the other side, some platforms charge less for holding IT's compared to funds.
    Not sure the FSCS cover is really an issue.
  • edited 2 November 2022 at 5:05PM
    masonicmasonic Forumite
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    edited 2 November 2022 at 5:05PM
    Aged said:
    Apodemus said:
    Why are you anxious to avoid RICA, which as you say is an Investment Trust?  I've had it in my SIPP (as part of a "wealth preservation" portion of my portfolio) for just over two years and on a Total Return basis, I am currently 32% up on the investment.
    I'm a little wary of investment trusts because I don't fully understand them. Also I gather that stamp duty is payable re the investment, and that there is no FSCS cover. 
    It's not true that there is no FSCS cover. If your investment platform goes bust or your shares are stolen, then you have FSCS protection. If the share price goes to zero, or falls in value, then you'd have no cover, just like the Ruffer Total Return Fund. The only difference is if there is fraud by the investment company, wherein this is treated as part of the investment risk when investing in the IT, but is covered by the FSCS when investing in the fund. But it's far more likely that they'd cause you to lose money by legitimate means, which isn't covered (see Woodford fund fiasco).
    In the 150+ years investment trusts have been around, I'm not aware of any investor losses that would have been eligible for FSCS compensation if they occurred within a fund today.
  • AminatidiAminatidi Forumite
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    There's no stamp duty payable with the investment trust (RICA).

    It can also run out to quite a premium so if you do consider RICA pay close attention to the buy price v NAV.

    Ruffer Diversified Return is intended to be a daily priced and dealing implementation of their total return strategy.

    If you're happiest with funds I'd consider the Diversified Return fund but there's no harm asking your platform if they can support the Total Return fund if you've ruled out the investment trust.
  • masonicmasonic Forumite
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    Aminatidi said:
    There's no stamp duty payable with the investment trust (RICA).
    Yes, RICA is Guernsey domiciled, so no stamp duty. It was at a pretty good discount last month, but has now returned to a modest premium.
  • aroominyorkaroominyork Forumite
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    Do only UK domiciled ITs (so not Irish) attract stamp duty?
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