ESTA in Transit

Post_Office_Pete

Hello all,

My two grown-up children were travelling to South America to visit their sibling.  I booked flights in July from Heathrow and picking up a connection at JFK New York.

However, there were denied boarding at Heathrow because they didn’t have an ESTA.  To be honest, I didn’t even give it a thought, they weren’t leaving the airport, etc.

They did apply but the ESTAs arrived 20 minutes after boarding closed, so returned home to Manchester.

I called my Travel Agent who did issue a complete refund and we rebooked flights for a couple of days later.  The flights were £700 more and my Travel Agent, who is self-employed but works under the umbrella of a big company, personally paid for this.  Hotels were fully booked in the area, so I booked an Airbnb and arranged transfers.

Looking back over the original paperwork it clearly says:

“Visas and Health

When you placed your booking, you will have been issued with guidance regarding visas and health for your chosen destination.  If applicable, we trust that you have now contacted the relevant embassies and visited your GP for further advice.”

Travel Agent accepts this didn’t happen and that’s the reason we were issued a full refund, but the Agent went further for topping up the extra flight costs.  I appreciate what she did but the company is refusing to help any further.  They say a full refund was issued and it was our decision to still travel so they wouldn’t accept liability for extra costs involved.

Costs that I incurred

·         Airbnb                                  £800

·         Transfers                             £70

·         Travel to London                 £150

The original visit was for seven days but could only get flights for six days, plus all the time wasted travelling to London & back.

I’ve used this company for 20 years, but I don’t want the Agent to pay from her own pocket, I’d rather the company paid.

Any advice or thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

k3lvc

The devil may be in the detail here - I'm not sure an ESTA is classed as a Visa so may be a get-out for the Travel Agent

With regard to your additional costs you're claiming for AirBnB costs - were these not mitigated by a previous hotel refund or are these true additional costs ?

 

DullGreyGuy

ESTA isnt a visa and the US wasnt your destination.  Travel agents only ever give guidance and its always up to you to make sure of the rules for your personal circumstances. 

Sounds like they have already gone way beyond what their T&Cs demanded of them, unfortunately its also not something that travel insurance would cover for the same reason as the above, its your duty to ensure you know the rules.

In the USA you cannot transit airside and so have to go through border control to enter the country before then leaving again. Hence either you need an ESTA or a Transit Visa https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/us-visas/other-visa-categories/transit.html depending on your circumstances

Post_Office_Pete

k3lvc said:

The devil may be in the detail here - I'm not sure an ESTA is classed as a Visa so may be a get-out for the Travel Agent

With regard to your additional costs you're claiming for AirBnB costs - were these not mitigated by a previous hotel refund or are these true additional costs ?

 

Thanks for the reply.

These are additional costs entirely.  I'd paid in full for flights, transfers, and hotel for seven days.  They rearranged flights, which had increased since I booked in July, but I booked the Airbnb so is an extra.

Thanks again for the reply.

bagand96

The ultimate responsibility for entry requirements is with the passenger and not the travel agent or airline. Very few travel agents or airlines will provide any advice these days.

You were lucky to be able to get a refund for the flights (although they may have been booked on a flexible travel agent fare class, or even still under some Covid flexibility waiver). But for the agent to make up the flight difference in new flights is exceptionally good and more than the majority would have done.  I'm guessing this is a proper quality travel agent from the fact you say you've been using them for 20 years. 

The agent clearly feels some responsibility to you by the action they've taken so far but I think making them accept liability for further costs will be a challenge.  For a start is there anything else in the T&C's about entry requirements?

Post_Office_Pete

DullGreyGuy said:

ESTA isnt a visa and the US wasnt your destination.  Travel agents only ever give guidance and its always up to you to make sure of the rules for your personal circumstances. 

Thanks for your reply.

But isn't that the point, no guidance was issued.  It's the reason I use a travel agent, rather than book everything myself.

Voyager2002

As others have said, I think your agent has gone far beyond what you can reasonably expect. Most people in that situation would face a total loss of the price of the air ticket.

So far as airlines are concerned, it is always the passenger's responsibility to find out what travel documents are required and to obtain such documents. It seems that your travel agent accepted this responsibility and was negligent in failing to give you information about the US requirements, and has paid the price for this. I don't think it would be reasonable to expect more from the agent. Obviously we do not know the details of his contract with the "big company" he works with, but we can be confident that if this company were obliged to pay for your loss then he would charge them accordingly. So it does seem clear that there is no other company that would/could bear the loss.

Post_Office_Pete

Appreciate everyone's replies but I honestly still feel I'm out of pocket by over £1000 through no fault of my own.

 
Guidance should have been given and wasn't.

k3lvc

Post_Office_Pete said:

Appreciate everyone's replies but I honestly still feel I'm out of pocket by over £1000 through no fault of my own.

 
Guidance should have been given and wasn't.

As before the devil is in the detail - the USA was not your 'destination' neither is ESTA a 'Visa'

As others have said for whatever reason your agent seems to have gone above and beyond - being honest if you're asking for any more you're !!!!!! in the wind 

DullGreyGuy

Post_Office_Pete said:

Appreciate everyone's replies but I honestly still feel I'm out of pocket by over £1000 through no fault of my own.

 
Guidance should have been given and wasn't.

What guidance was required for South America which was their actual destination?

What is the name of the agency to see the full T&Cs you agreed to?  Below are just a random sample:


Hays
20.1    We can provide general information about the passport and visa requirements for your trip, but this is for guidance only and it remains your responsibility to check the requirements before you travel. Your specific passport and visa requirements, and other immigration requirements are your responsibility and you should confirm these with the relevant Embassies and/or Consulates. Neither we nor the supplier accept any responsibility if you cannot travel because you have not complied with any passport, visa or immigration requirements. 

Luxtriper
14.5 We can provide general information about the passport and visa requirements for your trip. However, your specific passport and visa requirements, and other immigration requirements are your responsibility and you should confirm these with the relevant Embassies and/or Consulates.

Virgin Holidays
3.6.  Virgin Atlantic Holidays accepts no liability if you or any member of your party cannot travel or are refused entry onto any airline, or transport, or into - or through  (whether or not you are required to leave the aircraft) - any country because they have not complied with any travel, passport, visa, ESTA, vaccination, testing or immigration requirements or are not in possession of necessary travel documentation (including, without limitation, a valid ESTA, vaccination certificates, testing kits and any other required documentation). You agree to reimburse us in relation to any fines or other losses which we incur as a result of your failure to comply with any such requirements.



Guidance is not the same as an absolute statement of what the requirements are, even if you could somehow argue that the US was your destination. 

bagand96

Post_Office_Pete said:

DullGreyGuy said:

ESTA isnt a visa and the US wasnt your destination.  Travel agents only ever give guidance and its always up to you to make sure of the rules for your personal circumstances. 

Thanks for your reply.

But isn't that the point, no guidance was issued.  It's the reason I use a travel agent, rather than book everything myself.

Did you at any point ask the travel agent about entry requirements?   You say it's the reason you use a travel agent but you it seems you've assumed they would inform you of the entry requirements and are now pointing to a paragraph in their T&C's to hang the issue on them.

Post_Office_Pete said:

Appreciate everyone's replies but I honestly still feel I'm out of pocket by over £1000 through no fault of my own.

 
Guidance should have been given and wasn't.

Now we've seen the full paragraph it clearly states that guidance is available on gov.uk which unfortunately you didn't check.  If you're pointing to that paragraph as the crux of your argument against the company then it's not unreasonable for them to ask if you'd checked gov.uk as they advised.


If you're at an impasse with the company but you still wish to take this further then you have likely two options:

- Complain to any industry body they may be part of (i.e. ABTA)
- Take the legal route like Small Claims Court to claim your losses

Nobody knows what the outcome of either course of action would be we can only offer our opinions.  However the points already raised in this thread would almost certainly be raised in any legal defence the company would make.

It's a lot of money to lose and I do feel for you in that respect, I'm just not 100% convinced there's an argument it was entirely the travel agent's fault and I think they've gone much further than most companies would already.