ESTA in Transit

Post_Office_Pete

DullGreyGuy said:

Post_Office_Pete said:

Appreciate everyone's replies but I honestly still feel I'm out of pocket by over £1000 through no fault of my own.

 
Guidance should have been given and wasn't.

What guidance was required for South America which was their actual destination?

What is the name of the agency to see the full T&Cs you agreed to?  Below are just a random sample:


Hays
20.1    We can provide general information about the passport and visa requirements for your trip, but this is for guidance only and it remains your responsibility to check the requirements before you travel. Your specific passport and visa requirements, and other immigration requirements are your responsibility and you should confirm these with the relevant Embassies and/or Consulates. Neither we nor the supplier accept any responsibility if you cannot travel because you have not complied with any passport, visa or immigration requirements. 

Luxtriper
14.5 We can provide general information about the passport and visa requirements for your trip. However, your specific passport and visa requirements, and other immigration requirements are your responsibility and you should confirm these with the relevant Embassies and/or Consulates.

Virgin Holidays
3.6.  Virgin Atlantic Holidays accepts no liability if you or any member of your party cannot travel or are refused entry onto any airline, or transport, or into - or through  (whether or not you are required to leave the aircraft) - any country because they have not complied with any travel, passport, visa, ESTA, vaccination, testing or immigration requirements or are not in possession of necessary travel documentation (including, without limitation, a valid ESTA, vaccination certificates, testing kits and any other required documentation). You agree to reimburse us in relation to any fines or other losses which we incur as a result of your failure to comply with any such requirements.



Guidance is not the same as an absolute statement of what the requirements are, even if you could somehow argue that the US was your destination. 

Just needed a couple of jabs, no visas were required.

Thanks, on their website it says the following:

 It is your responsibility to check and fulfill the passport, visa, health, and immigration requirements applicable to your trip. We can only provide general information about this. You must check requirements for your own specific circumstances with the relevant Embassies and/or Consulates and your own doctor as applicable. Requirements do change, and you must check the up-to-date position in good time before departure.

Ok, I accept my responsibility/fault.

However, that comment about offering guidance needs to be removed, because it's worthless, and replaced with "It is your responsibility......."

Had it said that I would have checked and applied for the ESTAs.

Lesson learned but thanks for all your advice.

DullGreyGuy

Its a highly complex, and often fairly dynamic, thing when you consider all the potential permutations.  Its not realistic for your average high street agency to know how things may differ if you have a british subject passport rather than british citizen one and they instead talk in loose terms like a "british passport". The one I do know is that a British Passport (Bermuda) has different entry rights to the US to a British Passport (British Citizen) even though both are "british passports".

Even if you look at specialist companies that provide visa advice they fairly heavily limit their liability for advice that proves to be wrong.

It seems they've helped you more than they had to. Certainly the clip you added would be helpful if they added a note about it ultimately being your responsibility however you should read the terms before agreeing to them at which point you would have noted, as you now have, it does say its your responsibility. 

Voyager2002

I should add, for the benefit of any future readers, that there is a database called TIMATIC that is probably the most reliable source around for information about passport, visa and vaccination requirements. You can interrogate it via the websites of most major airlines, and it is what the airlines use when deciding whether or not to transport a passenger.

onashoestring

I’m not clear on how after being denied boarding at Heathrow and returning to Manchester they incurred £800 expenses for an Airbnb? 

tightauldgit

With regards 'advising you on visas' you may well find that whatever paperwork they sent you does include some reference to advising you that you need to check what the visa requirements are for your trip and that the agent isn't responsible. 

To be honest from what you have said I think they've gone above and beyond in refunding you as much as they did as most companies would probably just have said it was your fault for not checking the requirements. 

Agents quite rightly don't want to be on the hook for anyone refused entry because of immigration issues as its a horrendously complex area and one that can change between booking and travel quite easily. Even the .gov.uk website I've noticed will often caveat their advice. At the end of the day the only source of the rules are the immigration laws of the admitting country and nobody but the immigration officer at the airport can really give a 100% guarantee of your entry.

Having said I would have thought an experienced travel agent WOULD have reminded you that an ESTA is needed for transit in the US which is why they've probably gone as far as they have gone in refunding you. 

CKhalvashi

Post_Office_Pete said:

Appreciate everyone's replies but I honestly still feel I'm out of pocket by over £1000 through no fault of my own.

 
Guidance should have been given and wasn't.

However it's responsibility of the passenger to ensure they meet the entry requirements for any country they visit (including transit through) and they failed to do so.

As above, the US wasn't their destination, an ESTA isn't a visa and the agent has been far more generous than we would be as a company in this case (we don't offer flights but would simply re-invoice any date extension/changes for the services we offer to not be left out of pocket ourselves, deny any claim and state that the courts are the correct avenue for this without further discussion). I fail to see why once the ESTA had come through they didn't ask the airline to put them on the next flight (which likely would have had a fee, albeit likely less than was paid).

I also fail to see how £800 for 2 nights accommodation is reasonable in any way.

The agent has gone above and beyond here, so your children's travel insurance will be the only reasonable way for them to go should it cover this eventuality.

DullGreyGuy

CKhalvashi said:
The agent has gone above and beyond here, so your children's travel insurance will be the only reasonable way for them to go should it cover this eventuality.

Insurance typically wont cover you not bothering to check what visas etc you require nor booking first then being denied such visas.