Diary of a 30-something idiot

Humdinger1

As ever, @foxgloves is right. Contributions don't have to be purely financial but you have to be debt-free and in a stable situation for that to work. Excellent that OH is looking to earn money because that's what needed right now. So looking forward to your journey @foxandflowers. Onward and upward love Humdinger

jusferbrowsing

Good luck in whatever decision you come to. FWIW Im another in the camp of 'a do-er upper will cost more than you can ever imagine'. We are 6 years in and there is still the kitchen to be done and one bedroom carpet to be laid.

We utilised 0% balance transfers for any work on the house and were ruthless in making sure we paid before incurring interest charges but its been a slower process than we could imagine… and so hard… I look back to when we were living in a house that had just been plastered from the brick and everything was damp inside and out (thanks rain). Before that during the prepping, the dust was so bad we woke up in the morning with sore noses and throats. I NEVER want to face that again (fortunately no children were subjected to the situation).

You really need to have your finances in order and both be pulling together before venturing on such a large and draining project. Other houses will happen in their own time and this one could be seen as a bullet dodged rather than the one that got away.

You are trying so hard, the load has to be shared or you will break. I hope your OH sees this and makes a real effort to move forward with you in whatever you decide to do.

Best Wishes.

foxgloves

Yes, I agree, based on our experience. It's often the initially unseen costs which really increase the cost of renovations. i.e You remove the double layer of horrid 1980s vinyl wall covering & discover rhat it was all that was holding blown plaster onto the walls, a new front drive reveals a broken drainage system underneath, you get a quote on a modest amount of electrical work & it turns out your existing wiring has been done by an unqualified numpty & is illegal, some light building work at the back of the house uncovers a broken sewer, almost every quote you get ends up being that bit more because the previous job hasn't been done properly & problems need to be put right before you can go ahead. These are all things which have happened with our doer-upper house & there are plenty of other examples too.

I'm not trying to scare you, @foxandflowers -far from it - but this is the reality of buying houses which need a lot of work. We were still about 5 years pre-LBM when we bought our current house. We had a significant amount of debt for 2 professionals on a decent joint income & no savings, yet we blithely bought the house fully thinking we would be able to tackle it head on with no money. Hearts tend to rule heads where houses are concerned. We intend to move again when Mr F retires. We are adament that we won't buy another doer-upper....not because of the upheaval, but because of rhe cost.

Seroiusly, it's worth thinking about, as you have no financial reserves.

F

MeandO

I can echo what foxgloves said above about renovations, whether you have an in depth survey or not. I've bought two older properties in the past few years, both of which I paid top whack for a full survey and both of which later went on to have major issues which just couldn't be forseen by a surveyor and weren't covered. The first of these properties required some work which snowballed as more and more problems were uncovered as the layers were peeled back on the fabric of the house. To cut a long sory short, it ended with myself and my then young child having to get out of what was our beautiful home and meant to be fresh start after divorce, as it was becoming dangerous to live there. At this time I'd already spent around £25K doing the house up and had to let the house go, declaring the issues, at a great loss as quotes for repairs were almost up to £100K+. It was one of the most traumatic times of my life and still affects me greatly now. Put simply, I am not the person I was before this happened and am now scared of most decisions I have to make and worry constantly about everything. I wouldn't wish that on anyone let alone yourself who was already been through enough and deals with enough stress day by day.
The second old house I bought is the one we now live in and cost me £5K in unforseen issues the second week of ownership. I've spent in excess of £40K, at least half of that if not more on unforseen issues when at first sight it appeared all it needed was a new bathroom and to be re-rendered with a relatively positive survey! This is a modest 3 bed semi too! Surveyors will only comment on the things they can see and it's the things they can't see that cost the big money.

Perhaps a good exercise would be to look at the costs of underpinning, re-render, windows/doors, bathrooms, kitchen, re-wiring etc and add it all up first, then double that sum to understand the true cost of a renovation, especially on a property of that size. Like others, I'm really worried about you and your situation especially with your husband who doesn't seem to contribute much and I don't just mean financially, whilst you're trying to find a dream home for your family, him and his children. I would be really worried about entering into a project of this size without lots of support from him, physically as well as emotionally and financially. I went into these things naively and hopefully the exepriences of several people on this board will prevent you from doing the same and finding yourself in a worse situation later down the line. xx

foxandflowers

Hi everyone,

Thank you all for your comments, I am taking everything on board.

Not much doing today in terms of moneysaving. Little one is showing the first signs of puberty at age 8 I am sad about it. She still believes in Father Christmas, I am not really ready to have to discuss periods etc. But we had a chat this morning and she seems fine with it all. However, she is ill, Stepdaughter is ill, I am feeling ill. Her adult teeth are coming through and we all have stinking colds. Not feeling my best self today at all. 

Going to my voluntary job tonight, so signing off work at 4pm to walk to the bus/train in time. Going to make a salad to take with me, and will be looking at the house again (from the outside) to see if I can make a list of things I think will need doing. I like the idea of costing it all up, so will be trying to do that tonight. 

SuzeQStan

Hope you are all feeling a bit better today F+F xx

mumtoomany

Hi, @foxandflowers. I've been reading your diary from the start. I thought I'd tell of some of our experiences buying "doer uppers". I have a close relative who has always done our surveys for us. His job, but he goes above and beyond, crawling through cellars and into loft spaces. Despite this, our first house had a kitchen floor that was collapsing. Our fourth house, when the plaster board was taken down from the cellar ceiling, had the main internal wall within weeks of falling through. The main joist had rotted and been patched up with a few bits of wood and some long nails. This house, our fifth, had problems with the roof and no pipes at all for the hot water system. None of these problems had been seen at survey. We would, probably, have bought each of these anyway, but being forewarned would have been better. When buying houses, we have always offered much less than the asking price, to start negotiations. In all but one of these purchases the seller has come back with a counter offer and we've settled somewhere in the middle. The only exception being out fourth house. The asking price was £140,000, we offered £125,000, and the seller came back immediately with a yes. Only after we'd moved in, did we find out that they had sold the one next door, two months earlier for £125,000. That one was in slightly better condition. They had inherited both and I believe would have taken less.

All these houses were bought between by OH and I. All cost a lot more than we expected to fix, and we have always done most work ourselves. Between us we've fitted central heating systems, replaced windows, fitted bathrooms and kitchens, as well as cosmetic things. We have, along with our children, lived for long periods of time with no heating, no water in the kitchen, broken windows held together with selotape. It is certainly character building.

If you're going to buy this house, he prepared for it to cost a fortune to fix. And know that to do so is going to need your partner on board fully. Contributing financially and physically. Good luck with whichever route you take. 

I'll be following along, hugs, mumtoomany.xxx

enthusiasticsaver

We bought two doer-uppers in the early years of our marriage, pre children. Never again. They are usually money pits. We moved into our current house over 30 years ago and it needed nothing structural doing or any modernising and never regretted it. Of course location does play a part but I think if money is tight it is much more difficult to renovate properties. My suggestion is cost it up, double it and add a 20% contingency fund for unexpected costs. 

foxandflowers

Hi all, 

Almost time for another long weekend. Work has been very busy.

I sat down with husband and we went over the figures for everything and we both agreed that the bridging loan was a non starter. I think we got carried away with the possibility of being able to move quickly, and not have to wait for this house to sell. We did some calculations and realised that even at the sale price of £320k, we would likely be looking at having £280k after fees, which would leave us 80k spare. Which isn't a small amount, and would be more than the £275k we were offered. But after a year of paying bills on both properties, that would be another £25k gone, so we'd have 55k left, which would allow us to do the kitchen renovation sans extension but knocking through into dining room & rear hallway, potential underpinning work, replace the roof tiles, replace all the windows, and put a fence on the garden (allowing for contingencies as you all suggested.) It would not allow for debt repayments, or savings. Or carpets, paint, a rewire... etc etc. 

So we worked out what we would need to do to make the property liveable/comfortable, without going all out and redoing everything at once over the course of a couple of years. 
List is as follows, and again, the figures include contingency funds. Again, if I have any figures wrong, and they are rough based on googling etc. Please say. 

So;

windows & front door = 5k.
Fencing = 4k. 
Potential rewire = 9k.
Potential underpinning = £20k.
Potentially missing roof tiles = 5k.
Kitchen knock through, 2x RSJ, new kitchen = 30k.
Paint & supplies = 1k.

Total = 75,000.

So we went back to the person that offered us £275k and said we would be happy to meet in the middle at around 300k. He came back to us today and said he would go to 290k. 

And we accepted. And I know its not what a lot of you think I should do, but I have to do what is best and right for my family, and that is to move. With hopefully about £10,000 to put into an emergency fund, and both of us working. Obviously if there is structural issues, I may revise the amount I have offered on the house, as it would mean a lot more work. But we are going to do a lot of it ourselves, such as the painting, sorting the garden out, the flooring, the wallpaper stripping etc etc. Father in law is very good at DIY and I'm excited to learn from him and turn this house into a lovely family home. And if we are both working, we can work together to overpay the debts, build our savings, and hopefully end this year on a much stronger note than we started it.

Please don't be mad at me.

amanda_p

I think your potential underpinning figure could be a little low. Very much depends on what has to be done but we had the front of our house underpinned 30 years ago. The cost then was in excess of £30,000, that was just the underpinning cost, add to that the investigations to determine what needed to be done, another £12,000.
Don't underestimate structural work it is very expensive!