Will estate agents do all the checks on seller before selling?

dimbo61

" Probate " 
Now there is a word that should come with a HUGE question mark hanging over it !
Who is selling the property ?
How many people stand to gain from the sale ?
Have they got probate sorted yet ?
When your solicitor starts asking questions will anyone be able to answer them.
When was the boiler last  serviced /
Any issues with the Neighbours ? etc etc 
The estate  agents will be under an obligation to sell at the highest price because that is what the administrators of the Will/Probate are required to do.
What does that mean ? well the estate agents will not take the property off the market in case someone comes in with a higher offer right up to completion 

eddddy

Tiglet2 said:

This was a big corporate EA, so I have to conclude that generally EAs do not check that the title matches the ID of their clients.

Based on a sample of one sale by one estate agent, you seem to be making a general conclusion about all sales by estate agents.

I've come across one solicitor who was incompetent, but I don't conclude that all solicitors are incompetent.

Tiglet2 said:

The Estate Agent assumed they were the owners of the property. 

How do you know that? It seems very, very unlikely that an estate agent would simply assume that the people living in a house are the owners.

Perhaps it's more conceivable that the Estate Agent was dealing with 'Ms Jones' and checked Land Registry and saw that there were two registered owners - e.g. 'Mr Smith' and 'Ms Jones' - and assumed that man living in the house with 'Ms Jones' was 'Mr Smith'. But that's very different.


Was the issue that 'Mr Smith' wasn't aware of the sale, and hadn't consented to it?

Or did disputes develop between 'Mr Smith' and 'Ms Jones' about the sale, which caused it to fall through?

Mr.Generous

I've seen properties go on the market the day the agent visits the property, presumably they will get round to checking the land registry later?

On the probate situation could the property not be sold before probate has been completed and the funds just become part of the estate? I'm guessing the solicitors would have to hold the money if multiple people stood to gain. (I don't know that's why I ask!!)

My personal view of estage agents is that they will always have the best interests of the agency fully and firmly at the top of the list, anything else is of little concern. I've bought, renovated and sold properties for a living so dealt with a fair few.

user1977

Mr.Generous said:

On the probate situation could the property not be sold before probate has been completed and the funds just become part of the estate? of the list, anything else is of little concern. I've bought, renovated and sold properties for a living so dealt with a fair few.

It's not probate being completed (as in the estate finally being wound up), we're talking about the original grant of probate i.e. the authority that lets the executors deal with the estate. They can't sell property before they've got that.

Tiglet2

eddddy said:

Tiglet2 said:

This was a big corporate EA, so I have to conclude that generally EAs do not check that the title matches the ID of their clients.

Based on a sample of one sale by one estate agent, you seem to be making a general conclusion about all sales by estate agents.

I've come across one solicitor who was incompetent, but I don't conclude that all solicitors are incompetent.

Tiglet2 said:

The Estate Agent assumed they were the owners of the property. 

How do you know that? It seems very, very unlikely that an estate agent would simply assume that the people living in a house are the owners.

Perhaps it's more conceivable that the Estate Agent was dealing with 'Ms Jones' and checked Land Registry and saw that there were two registered owners - e.g. 'Mr Smith' and 'Ms Jones' - and assumed that man living in the house with 'Ms Jones' was 'Mr Smith'. But that's very different.


Was the issue that 'Mr Smith' wasn't aware of the sale, and hadn't consented to it?

Or did disputes develop between 'Mr Smith' and 'Ms Jones' about the sale, which caused it to fall through?

That is one example.  However, in 40 years of buying and selling properties, I have not come across estate agents who checked the ID against the title documents, much as their current Code of Conduct is stating that they should, at least in today's market.  Maybe things are changing now (as they should).  My son's purchase 4 years ago was the last time we dealt with an EA on a personal level. 

It may be that EAs don't make assumptions over the ownership of a property, but they should never be relied upon to provide correct information.  Most EAs are not legally trained and don't need to be too thorough, since this would be covered by the work of the solicitors in any case.  

There were delays in my son's purchase due to having to send out documents for signature to New Zealand, but the ex was at least happy to consent to the sale.

dimbo61

So if you can measure up the rooms yourself.
Take lots of photos and measure the size of the rooms and garden.
Mark down the location of the sockets and count them.
Take photos of the fusebox and gas boiler.
Check the water level of the boiler ( in the green area )
Does it need a rewire, was the hating working, check the radiators and hot water.
Turn on all the taps and lights.
See if the extractor fans work in the bathrooms and kitchen.
Oven and hob ? Heating up 

Choirgrl

dimbo61 said:

" Probate " 
Now there is a word that should come with a HUGE question mark hanging over it !
… 
The estate  agents will be under an obligation to sell at the highest price because that is what the administrators of the Will/Probate are required to do.
What does that mean ? well the estate agents will not take the property off the market in case someone comes in with a higher offer right up to completion 

In my experience (I used to work in a probate -adjacent job) that is not usual at all. Probate properties come off the market / are marked SSTC just like non-probate sales. 

Ath_Wat

Tiglet2 said:

JMA74 said:

Tiglet2 said:

JMA74 said:

Estate agents will usually have proof of identity that matches the owner showing on land registry.  If the ownership differs they should ascertain why. Might be that someone got married and they have a marriage certificate on file as well.

After some well publicised cases of fraud, estate agents generally do enough to make sure the person selling the house has the right to do so.

The solicitors will be more thorough obviously 

Although the EAs Code of Conduct states that they should obtain title documents from Land Registry, they rarely do.  So, they can't check the identity matches the owner on Land Registry.  They just assume that the people selling the property are the owners, because it will be the responsibility of the solicitor to do the due diligence.  Of course this isn't discovered until solicitors are instructed following an accepted offer.

Perhaps for a small independent but as someone who worked under the big corporates i can guarantee that they won't have a property for sale if they haven't checked they are allowed to sell it 

My son bought a property being sold by a man and his wife.  The Estate Agent assumed they were the owners of the property.  They probably did run ID checks, but they did not check the names on the title.  If they had done that, they would have seen that the wife was on the title with her previous partner.  This was a big corporate EA, so I have to conclude that generally EAs do not check that the title matches the ID of their clients.

You really don't "have to conclude" anything but that one estate agent acted in this way in this one case.

Tiglet2

Ath_Wat said:

Tiglet2 said:

JMA74 said:

Tiglet2 said:

JMA74 said:

Estate agents will usually have proof of identity that matches the owner showing on land registry.  If the ownership differs they should ascertain why. Might be that someone got married and they have a marriage certificate on file as well.

After some well publicised cases of fraud, estate agents generally do enough to make sure the person selling the house has the right to do so.

The solicitors will be more thorough obviously 

Although the EAs Code of Conduct states that they should obtain title documents from Land Registry, they rarely do.  So, they can't check the identity matches the owner on Land Registry.  They just assume that the people selling the property are the owners, because it will be the responsibility of the solicitor to do the due diligence.  Of course this isn't discovered until solicitors are instructed following an accepted offer.

Perhaps for a small independent but as someone who worked under the big corporates i can guarantee that they won't have a property for sale if they haven't checked they are allowed to sell it 

My son bought a property being sold by a man and his wife.  The Estate Agent assumed they were the owners of the property.  They probably did run ID checks, but they did not check the names on the title.  If they had done that, they would have seen that the wife was on the title with her previous partner.  This was a big corporate EA, so I have to conclude that generally EAs do not check that the title matches the ID of their clients.

You really don't "have to conclude" anything but that one estate agent acted in this way in this one case.

OP asked if estate agents check the identity of clients against the land registry title in a probate sale.  I do not have to conclude anything, but over many years of property sales and purchases, I have not yet met an estate agent who does check this, so it is not just one estate agent on one case.

eddddy

I'm not sure that Estate Agent firms really are the 'incompetent fools' that people like to suggest.

Perhaps some of the people they employ on minimum wage, wearing shiny suits, who show you round properties, who hassle you on the phone aren't always the sharpest.

But they generally have back-office staff who do the serious stuff - like anti-money laundering checks, ID checks, property ownership checks, and the legal stuff.

(A bit like in a shop - the person you deal with at the counter might not deal with the 'serious business stuff'. They have a legal people, compliance people, buyers, etc in the back office who look after all that.)


From a pure business perspective, most estate agents don't want to waste their time and money trying to sell properties which the "real" owner hasn't agreed to sell. There's no benefit to anyone in doing that.