Neighbour wants access for repairs after harassment

Section62

DE_612183 said:

In this situation I think I'd refuse point blank - the neighbour will probably try to come round under the guise of 
2inspecting the work he's paying for" so it would be a no from me unless you get that agreement for him not to come onto your peoperty

The risk of refusing point blank is that the neighbour instead goes for an order under the Access to Neighbouring Land Act 1992.  Point blank refusal would help the neighbour establish they have a case for needing an order due to the lack of cooperation from the servient landowner.

It is a well made point that the neighbour also has a reasonable argument that they need to come round to inspect the work, but moreover, if they were to be held liable (e.g. for damage caused by the builder) then them being barred from the OP's property could give them the excuse that they didn't know what the builder was doing because the OP wouldn't allow them access.  There's a potential double-edged sword there.

Bendy_House said:

Your other massif lever - if the roofer has told you (or if it's pretty clear) that access is not essential for these repairs, you can tell the neighbour where to go. So, you can use that as an ultimatum; "I am happy to provide access to your roofer on the following conditions; blah blah blah - but reserve the right to refuse access as the work can be carried out from within your own boundary. What's it gonna be, eh?

The wording used in the act is "that [the works] cannot be carried out, or would be substantially more difficult to carry out, without entry upon the servient land" - nothing about the access being "essential".

It could be relatively easy to make an argument that not being able to put scaffolding on the OP's property would make the works "substantially more difficult to carry out", especially if the health and safety card can be played (it almost always can be when access and working at height are involved).

An unpleasant and harassing neighbour may rather enjoy the idea of getting a court order which makes them "dominant" and the OP "servient"... so this is one of those cases where playing hardball may result in a worse experience for the OP than being the better person and simply agreeing the access arrangement.  Pick your battles.

insomniac-uk

I have been reading every ones replies, thank you.

I'll make sure I'm not breaking any laws with the camera, unfortunately I had to read up on all that stuff last year, as they loved recording us any chance they got.

I'm not going to refuse them point blank at the moment because of the Neighbouring Land Act, but I am going stick to the terms I have asked for. Its up to them if they want to take the matter further, I just want to feel safe in my own home and know my property is protected. I understand if anything does happen it will be a long process but asking for them to agree to terms makes me feel like have some control on the situation, even tho I just want to tell them no I also made sure I wrote that I am only asking for the extra steps because of the previous harassment.

People have been asking if I have legal protection with my insurance, which I do have.

As for them inspecting the work, you can't see anything from my property, even the surveyor stayed on the path behind the gardens, so he can't use that excuse.

Bendy_House

"...as they loved recording us any chance they got."

Where did they record you? What does their camera cover?

If they have zero justification for training their camera on to/over your land, for example, that can be considered harassment, especially since they have 'form' in this respect. So I would be complaining.

insomniac-uk

Bendy_House said:

"...as they loved recording us any chance they got."

Where did they record you? What does their camera cover?

If they have zero justification for training their camera on to/over your land, for example, that can be considered harassment, especially since they have 'form' in this respect. So I would be complaining.

This was last year, they had a camera pointing at our property, filmed us on camera phones when when we were in the garden. Once the police spoke to them they stopped and had to turn the camera onto their own property.

If anyone is interested in this new drama. We couldn't reach an agreement about damage to our property, as we have legal cover we asked them to wait till we contact them and asked if our property is protected. They kicked up a fuss, refused to wait and asked for access now or they are taking us to court. We are waiting for solicitor to get back to us and I'm guessing they are taking us to court. We still haven't denied access, have just said wait a few days and if everything is legit, we'd still grant access, all this is in writing.

I just want to thank everyone who helped. I may delete the post as now we have to take the legal route, I don't think I should keep it. Than you again so much .

davemorton

insomniac-uk said:

Hi everyone, I'm sorry if this is the wrong place to post, I don't usually post on the forums so I'm sorry for any mistakes.

A bit of background on the harassment, last year my sister had been living at the house alone and was renovating our garden which the neighbours were not happy about. This started nearly a year of harassment, filming her every time she was in the garden threatening letters etc, it only stopped once the police were involved.

We haven't spoken to them since.

Due to the recent storm, their roof was damaged. The broken part is easier to access from our garden, I'm not 100% sure if its the only way for the roofer to fix the tiles.

What are my rights, do I have to grant them access for repairs? I do not want to interact with them in person and do not want them on my property. (They have been using notes to communicate). I don't mind the roofers being there but I don't think my neighbour will pay for any damage occurred during the work or that they will stay out of my garden.

Who do I contact to get more information, is a solicitor the only way?

Thank you in advance 

Please dont delete it, it stops other people getting help from the thread in the future. 
(Just re-read, perhaps you just mean deleting the post above:) )

Bendy_House

You can only delete the whole thread by asking MSE.

If you wish to delete/amend any of your own posts, that's easy - the 'cog' icon top-right of each post.

If you'd like anyone else to delete the content of their posts, just ask, and hopefully they'll comply - tho' I suspect a judgement might be made on each content.

Good luck, and - either way - please come back when all is resolved; it could then be a very useful thread for others :-)

[Deleted User]

YoungBlueEyes said:

I was going to say get some cameras. Be careful where you place them though. Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think you can solely film someone elses property. You can film your property at an angle that might capture a sliver of your neighbours, but not just them directly. 

Good luck to ya, nightmare nieghbours are the devil's work.

You can't film other people's property without opening yourself up to data protection issues and possibly harassment and invasion of privacy. There are certain exceptions where it's unavoidable and not the main subject of the filming, but you may have to go to court to make the determination.

Best thing is to just not do it. CCTV pointed at other people's property is a minefield.

Section62

insomniac-uk said:

I just want to thank everyone who helped. I may delete the post as now we have to take the legal route, I don't think I should keep it. Than you again so much .

I can't see anything in this tread which would be problematic if you end up being taken on the legal route, with the proviso that everything you've said is true and doesn't cause issues around defamation.

Moreover, if you take professional legal advice I think it is unlikely they will suggest anything other than trying to achieve negotiated access arrangements as the legal process can be unpredictable and the outcome for you in court could be worse than what you can negotiate - with the added downside of paying for legal representation if it does go to court.

Bendy_House

rigolith Best thing is to just not do it. CCTV pointed at other people's property is a minefield.

It doesn't have to be. Just check with ICO if uncertain.

Of 'course' all you should be normally be aiming your camera over is your own land - that is presumably what you are trying to protect. And obviously you should avoid doing anything that is an unjustifiable invasion of privacy. To do so could be considered harassment, and rightly so.

But, if you can justify your actions, and follow a few guidelines, then it IS permitted.

 (Rough guidelines being: JUSTIFICATION, warning signs, answering requests for footage which captures the neighbouring folk (but they, in turn, need to 'justify' these requests, as to - say - ask for daily footage could be considered unreasonable (can't remember the word), and keeping the recordings secure and only for use in any legal or civil action (and, if your system automatically over-records every few weeks, that's usually good enough.)

So, if a neighbour has shown themselves to have been carrying out anti-social or criminal activity, and there's, say, an area of their property from which this was carried out, then that is almost certainly adequate 'justification'. But, check with the police, and check with ICO - they have a chat facility, and keep a copy.

This should not be a minefield.

In the OP's case, if there is an obvious entry point to the garden, that could be covered, even if the captured image goes further than the border. Ditto if their a-s behaviour took place over a garden fence or wall - you could train a camera along there, regardless of whether it also overlooked part of their garden in doing so. 

You should obviously avoid windows and patio seating areas, things like that if it cannot be justified - many systems have 'screening' features where these can blank out parts of the view. However, say these slack-jaws specialise in tossing olive stones and firing champagne corks from their seating area, then you could cctv it. (But clear it with police and ICO first).

Soooo, it can be done, provided it's justified. And if the police have been called out to sort a-s behaviour originating from certain points, that's 'justification' enough. And they CANNOT train a camera back at you in turn - that's unjustified, so harassment.

insomniac-uk

I won't delete the thread, I just edited some of the past events to remove any details which they may be able to identify me from.

I have not refused access outright as a few people here gave me that advice.

I'm just asking them to hold a few days while I talk to my insurance legal team to make sure I was fully covered. I only did this because of their behaviour in past events and them not being able to reassure me now they will take responsibility for damage. They keep telling me they know the law as they have experience in that area, so I thought I was missing something and would check with my insurance.

Even now I think the best way is to grant access once I am sure my property is protected, as Section62 mentioned going to court is too time consuming and costly, I just want to get this done quickly, so I can go back to ignoring them.

They are the ones threatening court because they won't wait a few days, till I hear back from the legal team.

As for the camera it will be be 90% filming my garden, only a tiny area of the back of their garden is visible as its next to my gate.