Help! UC Stopped, Council Now Want The Whole Years Council Tax

peteuk

Muttleythefrog said:

NedS said:

Muttleythefrog said:

NedS said:

tifo said:

This happens. When  we showed employment last year our council tax went up from £77 a month with support to £215 a month without support. Been paying it like this for more than a year. Problem is they (UC, council, dwp etc) don't look at cost of living, everything has gone up this year, inc mortgages, and some people's wages have but benefits haven't increased.

That is not true - benefits increased by 3.1% in April 2022 in line with inflation.

yes with several months delay by which time inflation was about 9% so in reality benefits were cut.. yet again... as even my Tory MP raises.

That is just the way the system works as there is a 6 month lag between Sept inflation reading and an increase the following April - it's the same for many pensions and CS/public sector pay rises (including MPs pay rises).

That's how they set it out to work yes....a very poor system.... but it's still a real terms cut.

With the massive hike in inflation this year, any raise in April would a real term cut.  I certainly didn’t get a 3.1% pay rise this year, and doubt i will get anywhere near that next year.

People on benefits are struggling, I know, but so are some of those who work and can’t claim anything.  

kaMelo

Muttleythefrog said:

NedS said:

Muttleythefrog said:

NedS said:

tifo said:

This happens. When  we showed employment last year our council tax went up from £77 a month with support to £215 a month without support. Been paying it like this for more than a year. Problem is they (UC, council, dwp etc) don't look at cost of living, everything has gone up this year, inc mortgages, and some people's wages have but benefits haven't increased.

That is not true - benefits increased by 3.1% in April 2022 in line with inflation.

yes with several months delay by which time inflation was about 9% so in reality benefits were cut.. yet again... as even my Tory MP raises.

That is just the way the system works as there is a 6 month lag between Sept inflation reading and an increase the following April - it's the same for many pensions and CS/public sector pay rises (including MPs pay rises).

That's how they set it out to work yes....a very poor system.... but it's still a real terms cut.

By that logic any year when inflation falls between October's announcement and the implementation in April results in a real terms rise?

Muttleythefrog

kaMelo said:

Muttleythefrog said:

NedS said:

Muttleythefrog said:

NedS said:

tifo said:

This happens. When  we showed employment last year our council tax went up from £77 a month with support to £215 a month without support. Been paying it like this for more than a year. Problem is they (UC, council, dwp etc) don't look at cost of living, everything has gone up this year, inc mortgages, and some people's wages have but benefits haven't increased.

That is not true - benefits increased by 3.1% in April 2022 in line with inflation.

yes with several months delay by which time inflation was about 9% so in reality benefits were cut.. yet again... as even my Tory MP raises.

That is just the way the system works as there is a 6 month lag between Sept inflation reading and an increase the following April - it's the same for many pensions and CS/public sector pay rises (including MPs pay rises).

That's how they set it out to work yes....a very poor system.... but it's still a real terms cut.

By that logic any year when inflation falls between October's announcement and the implementation in April results in a real terms rise?

You'd have to do more some complex (or as complex as you want to make it) maths to establish definitively the answer to that given the inflation over the time in question you're looking at and when an increase is applied over that time... but it is definitely possible that inflation linked rises that are implemented in this way could lead to a real terms rise to answer your question... prices can of course also go down and that seems probable for things like gas in the medium term.... it is even plausible frozen benefits could increase in real terms value.

I think what we can say over the last 10 years (during which I think 7 have had zero rise) is that is unlikely to have happened... but of course you can add in other complicating factors such as by considering that the inflation rate itself is problematic... it's an average based on various products/services (which also change.. see link below)... but for example the current cost of living crisis is particularly acute because it is many of those basic essentials that are rising much more than average inflation... things like gas, electric, basic foods like pasta and milk... in other words if there was a 10% rise today (rather than potentially in April if the government is shamed into index linking a rise) in benefits it is entirely possible claimants would be worse off than they were at the start of the year in real cold hard terms of money they have and what they can afford that they need to live.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/inflationandpriceindices/datasets/consumerpriceinflationbasketofgoodsandservices (current table 2 for recent changes, table 3 for actual goods/services)

kaMelo

But then surely the same complex formula (or as complex as you want to make it) is required to work out whether or not the rise in April 2022 was a cut rather than simply stating as fact "it's still a cut"  
On the wider issue though, it's tough out there for sure .Many households who don't qualify for benefits are considerably worse off now than they were at the start of the year. The Government cannot, nor should it be expected to, insulate everyone from everything that is going on but you cannot ignore the extra support provided this year to benefit recipients to help mitigate the extra costs, which could in some cases be thousands of pounds per household.

As to years when inflation was lower in April than the preceding October in the last decade;
2012,2013,2014,2015,2018,2019,2020

https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/inflationandpriceindices/timeseries/d7g7/mm23

Spoonie_Turtle

kaMelo said:

As to years when inflation was lower in April than the preceding October in the last decade;
2012,2013,2014,2015,2018,2019,2020

https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/inflationandpriceindices/timeseries/d7g7/mm23

As far as I understand, out of those years only 2012, 2013, and 2020 had benefits rise with inflation. 
2014 and 2015 they rose by 1%, and 2016-2019 they were frozen which is a real-terms cut for every year that didn't have deflation.

Benefits rising are not to give people any extra spending power, but to catch up with the increases that have already happened.

Put it this way: a decade ago, the standard allowance for a single person aged 25 or over was £71/wk.  It is now £77.  That's an increase of £6 in TEN years.  

Using the ONS figures and rounding results to 2dp each time, if it had kept up with inflation from 2012 onwards (and yes I included the tiny deflation one year) the standard allowance should now be £84.54/wk, 9.8% higher than it actually is.

Muttleythefrog

kaMelo said:

But then surely the same complex formula (or as complex as you want to make it) is required to work out whether or not the rise in April 2022 was a cut rather than simply stating as fact "it's still a cut"  
On the wider issue though, it's tough out there for sure .Many households who don't qualify for benefits are considerably worse off now than they were at the start of the year. The Government cannot, nor should it be expected to, insulate everyone from everything that is going on but you cannot ignore the extra support provided this year to benefit recipients to help mitigate the extra costs, which could in some cases be thousands of pounds per household.

As to years when inflation was lower in April than the preceding October in the last decade;
2012,2013,2014,2015,2018,2019,2020

https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/inflationandpriceindices/timeseries/d7g7/mm23

Because of the large rate of inflation by April and the low rise at that time plus the continuing elevated inflation and the specifically high rates on basic goods poor people can't avoid.... I think this is one of those periods over which you can safely say the value of benefits is going down in real terms. In reality of course people don't live in instants of time... they live over periods of time while benefit amounts change infrequently and prices somewhat more frequently ....in effect you could technically say the day after a rise in benefits that recipients are much better off than they were the day before the rise... but then of course that would ignore that they may well have been getting worse off for the preceding 6 months... and that deals with your point on inflation rate changes (as does another poster above)... you need to bear in mind that people don't benefit from benefit rises in their past.. they only do so in their future... and of course in I believe in several of those years benefits were frozen...i.e. did not rise with inflation.

Agree with your other points... in fact to use my phrase you picked up on... it's as complex as you want to make it. We're on benefits but our food costs have plummeted in the last 2 months to around 20-30% what they were in the months preceding that... but that's because we a) moved to an urban centre with far more food options (the most expensive supermarket nearby is proving very cheap for us as every evening there's reduced food) b) have a community larder. Our heating costs are almost certainly also going to plummet despite the rapid rise in gas... because we've moved into an apartment that thus far has never gone below 23C (with no heating yet at all). That reminds me I must speak to British gas about the in excess of £400 bill when they actually owe us money!

Genex

huckster said:

If you attended a Job Centre Gateway Intervention appointment to verify your self-employment under UC, then the UC claim should not have been closed.  Suggest making a reclaim straightaway (using make a claim option on your account) and send a journal message to challenge the closing of the claim.

In regard to Council Tax, you should contact the Council and complete a new Council Tax reduction form, providing a full run down of your earnings.  Register a formal dispute with the Council and advise them the amounts they are asking for, would cause you severe hardship.

Thank you for the information. I can't appeal or log a journal, I can login to the UC account but can't do anything as "it's closed"

Genex

calcotti said:

Genex said:"… I earnt £800 and put my yearly from April to £8k so I assume this is some kind of cap? They closed my UC with the reason "you earnt too much". 

There is no cap. UC is calculated monthly. I don’t understand what you mean by ‘put my yearly from April to £8k’.

The CT demand for the full year may of course simply be an error. The starting pint is to raise it with them. You would expect to owe the remaining 6 months of the year (assuming you have been paying the amounts previously requested).

So every month I reported my income. To date I have made 8k in net income since april and their reason closing the account was that I earnt too much. As I had one of my lowest months when they closed it (£800), then I can only assume that I earnt over some kind of cumulative cap set around 8k

Spoonie_Turtle

The only cap would be if you go over £16,000 in savings.  If claims result in nil payment they are kept open for up to 6 months (I believe that's still the case?).

Genex

UPDATE:

I rang the housing benefit department, they very calmly and nonchalantly cancelled the incoming £350 direct debit and said that was fine and stopped all future direct debits while I process a "change of circumstances" form and it would all start again from April 2022 - essentially saying that the £350 numbers where effectively default placement holders before further action. While I am extremely grateful for the simplicity and easy fix, the fact they they send out letters to people like that is shocking. If I wasn't so far gone, that would have had severe consequences for my mental health.

I have also made a new application for Universal Credits.

While it might not work out great in the end, it has at least bought me a little extra time.