Forbury Retail Park - Present on site during no parking period

JM0809198

patient_dream said:

JM0809198 said:

patient_dream said:

JM0809198 said:

I'm not sure if it was darker than this after midnight but it's extremely difficult to notice the signs, let alone read them, and they dont explicitly state that you can't enter the car park at a particular time. The sign at the entrance simply states 3 hour maximum stay. Additionally, The KFC could still have been open for all I know and I could have been a potential customer. 

The above sign is the most important one, it is the entry sign

It clearly says 3 hours maximum stay and anyone would be right to assume it's 24 hours a day.  

The last time I got involved with this car park was with a lady on here who visited the furniture shops and overstayed. The landowner got it cancelled.

I am in the area today so will have a look if it makes it clear of restrictive times.  

Coupon said this ..
Did the PCN arrive at your house within 14 days?

An important question please

Patient_dream - Would you know where I could get in contact with the land owner by any chance? 

That I don't know but Reading Borough Council will tell you

I have just been in the car park.  The sign at your entry point as shown above does not state any time restriction just an offer for you to park for 3 hours.

On the other entry sign which is also the only exit, the sign is the same but is half blocked from view by a bush and railing

All the signs inside the car park have minute letters in their T&C's which you would need binoculars to read even if up close.
ALL the signs offer 3 hours parking 

Thank you, I rang the council and they told me to ring land registry so I'll give that a go.

JM0809198

How does this look for an initial appeal?

Re  PCN *********:

I dispute your 'parking charge', as the keeper of the vehicle. I deny any liability or contractual agreement and I will be making a complaint about your predatory conduct to your client landowner.

There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. Since your PCN is a vague template, I require an explanation of the allegation and your evidence. You must include a close up actual photograph of the sign you contend was at the location on the material date as well as your images of the vehicle.

The driver is diabetic and stopped temporarily to have something to eat in a safe place to prevent complications relating to low blood sugars/hypoglycemia, furthermore the signage is unlit, difficult to see and locate and very poor in the hours of darkness. You also stated that the vehicle was present during the restricted no parking period, there are no signs upon entry or elsewhere within the car park that clearly state or indicate to the restricted no parking period.

If the allegation involves an alleged overstay of minutes, your evidence must include the actual grace period agreed by the landowner, you stated that the driver was in the car park for 10 minutes. The PCN shows ANPR images of a numberplate (the car itself is not visible in the image, nor is anything identifiable as the car park itself). there is no evidence that the exit camera photo actually shows the car still within the confines of the car park (where is the site boundary? There is no evidence for it. 

Coupon-mad

I'd remove the final paragraph (not needed) and state that you* were not the driver.

* the appellant, who MUST be the keeper

1505grandad

Clarification as to RK as per op:-

"My wife is the registered keeper....."

JM0809198

Coupon-mad said:

I'd remove the final paragraph (not needed) and state that you* were not the driver.

* the appellant, who MUST be the keeper

No worries, just to clarify Coupon-mad the last paragraph matches my particular case, is the 10 minute grace period not a good argument at this stage? I know they stated the charge is for 'parking at a restricted time' but thought it might work in my favour as I was only seconds out of the grace period. I'll include what you mentioned regarding the RK not being the driver.

Coupon-mad

I don't think you need it. The signs offer 3 hours!  In fact I'd state that as your final sentence.

1505grandad

"I dispute your 'parking charge', as the keeper of the vehicle."

"No worries, just to clarify Coupon-mad the last paragraph matches my particular case,....."

Just checking  -  the appeal will be in the name of your wife?.

patient_dream

As 1505grandad says, the appeal must be done by your wife although of course you can write it

Tell your wife not to worry, you/she is here now

As Coupon said, no point in saying about a grace period because you had a full 3 hours ... that's what the signs say ...... 

In your appeal, ask for pictures of the signs that clearly tell motorists about the restricted hours.   Be advised that UKPC are known to doctor pictures which is fraud

READ THIS:-
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3229165/Is-PROOF-private-parking-firms-scamming-motorists-Drivers-say-timings-photos-doctored-legally-parked-cars-issued-fines.html

You have pictures and so do I

JM0809198

1505grandad said:

"I dispute your 'parking charge', as the keeper of the vehicle."

"No worries, just to clarify Coupon-mad the last paragraph matches my particular case,....."

Just checking  -  the appeal will be in the name of your wife?.

Yep most definitely will be as you all have advised. I'm just posting here on her behalf but she can submit the appeal as the registered keeper (all written in 1st person). 

JM0809198

patient_dream said:

As 1505grandad says, the appeal must be done by your wife although of course you can write it

Tell your wife not to worry, you/she is here now

As Coupon said, no point in saying about a grace period because you had a full 3 hours ... that's what the signs say ...... 

In your appeal, ask for pictures of the signs that clearly tell motorists about the restricted hours.   Be advised that UKPC are known to doctor pictures which is fraud

READ THIS:-
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3229165/Is-PROOF-private-parking-firms-scamming-motorists-Drivers-say-timings-photos-doctored-legally-parked-cars-issued-fines.html

You have pictures and so do I

patient_dream said:

As 1505grandad says, the appeal must be done by your wife although of course you can write it

Tell your wife not to worry, you/she is here now

As Coupon said, no point in saying about a grace period because you had a full 3 hours ... that's what the signs say ...... 

In your appeal, ask for pictures of the signs that clearly tell motorists about the restricted hours.   Be advised that UKPC are known to doctor pictures which is fraud

READ THIS:-
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3229165/Is-PROOF-private-parking-firms-scamming-motorists-Drivers-say-timings-photos-doctored-legally-parked-cars-issued-fines.html

You have pictures and so do I

Sure thing I will submit the appeal tonight. I'll include the pictures of the signs upon entering.