Premier Parking Solutions and BW Legal - NTK received 35 days later, Any help would be appreciated!

IxianMSE

Hi everyone,

On 13/07/22 I received an NTK from Premier Parking Solutions (PPS) claiming a 60£ charge for 35 minutes overstay on 28/05/22.
On the NTK PPS claimed that it was issued and posted on 07/06/22. (35 days ago)
I contacted PSS immediately but was told the case has been referred to the debt recovery (BW Legal), while making no comment on my complaint of the late delivery of NTK.
Effectively I had no chance to pay or appeal.
On 14/07/22 I got a letter (Letter A) from BW Legal demanding a 160£ payment. (suspiciously on time!)

The mailbox was checked daily so it is certain the NTK was not delivered before 13/07/22.
However, there is absolutely no information regarding the post or delivery date on the envelope except “delivered by Royal Mail” stamp.
It seems almost impossible for me to prove the NTK was delivered late.

=========

The current status:
I have received a Letter of claim (LBC, Letter C) from BW on 20/09/22 after I ignored their "Final Demand" (Letter B ).
The deadline on LBC is 25/10/22.

I have requested a SAR from PPS, but it is unhelpful - only contains my email with them, NTK and photos (which are included in NTK).

My current plan is to send BW an email before 25/10 requiring a suspension of 30 days for "seeking debt advice", then get prepared for the court claim and defence etc (I'm reading through the MSE template atm).

=========

But before that I would really appreciate advice/opinion from you guys on the following:

• Would it be worth negotiating with BWL - to cancel or settle the case on a lower amount (I would offer 60£ or 0)? (Do you guys think this case is defendable?)
• Should I ask for their evidence in my next email to BWL? (e.g., proof of posting)
• f the case comes to a county court - I guess I'll have to identify the driver and thus make the late delivery of NTK irrelevant?
• In that case, would my best defence be the “abuse of the process”? (BWL did add 60£ of "debt recovery" nonsense)

Additionally, some questions on the new CoP - the event took place before the withdrawal of the Private Parking Code of Practice 2022, and the NKT was issued on 07/06 - the day the COP was withdrawn.

• Is the new CoP still applicable in this case?
• Legally, how significant the effect of CoP can be - can I use it as part of the defence or negotiation?

=========

Here is the timeline of the case:
28/05/2022 Parking
07/06/2022 NTK Issued (so they claim)
12/07/2022 BW Legal Letter A
13/07/2022 NTK received (35 days later)
13/07/2022 Email to PPS regarding payment and appeal
14/07/2022 BW Legal Letter A received
16/08/2022 BW Legal Letter B final demand
20/09/2022 BW Legal Letter C LBC
25/09/2022 SAR Request send to PPS
02/10/2022 SAR received
24/10/2022 Seek debt advice email sent
25/10/2022 Deadline on LBC

Below is a Google drive folder containing all the relevant documents:
Folder - Google Drive
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/14PmgrnH7ZaLO2Y_2BtFq7PTjjGCnf67t

• Car park photos (CHAMS ANPR)
• Parking Receipt
• NTK
• BWL letter A
• Email to PPS regarding payment and appeal
• BWL letter B Final Demand
• BWL letter C LBC
• SAR request email to PPS
• Land title registry
• Land title plan

Any help will be greatly appreciated please.
  

Grizebeck

No giving up and paying
You defend in full

IxianMSE

Grizebeck said:

No giving up and paying
You defend in full

Not sure how should I defend my case though...
Someone from pepipoo suggested that if I identify myself as driver in court, the fact that they served NTK late will suddenly become irrelevant and justifiable - as the POFA will be negated.

Should I just simply use the template provided in this fourm?
I honestly cannot tell if PPC did anything wrong (regarding the signs, letters etc) in this case (apart from that 60£ ofc).

Fruitcake

How much are they asking for? Even if you defend and lose it should still cost you less than if you pay now or don't defend.

The new CoP was never introduced. You can refer to the government's intent but not refer to it is mandatory legislation.

The term double recovery should be used not abuse of process.

How did you get on with Plan A, a complaint to the landowner and your MP? It is never too late to do this.

Where did the alleged event occur? It may have cropped up here before.

What was the reason for the PCN being issued?

You should get photos of the site and signage, then have a good look at the template defence.

IxianMSE

How much are they asking for? Even if you defend and lose it should still cost you less than if you pay now or don't defend.

They are asking for 100£ "PCN charge" + 60£ "debt recovery costs" - exact words used in their letter.
If I defend and lose, my estimation is, it will cost 175£.
But I'm moving home and work and other stuff - time spend on this is more of my concern than the money.

How did you get on with Plan A, a complaint to the landowner and your MP? It is never too late to do this.

Letter sent, no response yet. (Tbh I've received reply from MP regarding other complaint before - looks like a template drafted by an intern and only signed by MP - not sure how much that will help.)

Where did the alleged event occur?

Chams, Plymouth. Googled both here and Pepipoo, no result. Plenty of BWL though!

What was the reason for the PCN being issued?

Session expired, and it did expired for around 30 minutes. 

You should get photos of the site and signage

If you are interested, here is a google drive filled with all the documents - including some photos of the site:
drive.google.com/drive/folders/14PmgrnH7ZaLO2Y_2BtFq7PTjjGCnf67t
I'll add some closer image if the sign later.

Thanks for help!

KeithP

From your photographs, the car park in question seems to be this one in Constantine Street.
GoogleStreetView tells us that the postcode of that Constantine Street car park is PL4 9AF.

But you Land Registry enquiry appears to be somewhere else. Although it references the same postcode - PL4 9AF - the Land Registry map does not show the car park.

In fact, the land marked in red on the LR map appears to be this plot behind The Pit & Pendulum, shown in yellow on the following image, and the car park is outlined in red...



Perhaps you can get a refund of the LR fee.  

IxianMSE

KeithP said:

From your photographs, the car park in question seems to be *link removed*
GoogleStreetView tells us that the postcode of that Constantine Street car park is PL4 9AF.

But you Land Registry enquiry appears to be somewhere else. Although it references the same postcode - PL4 9AF - the Land Registry map does not show the car park.

In fact, the land marked in red on the LR map appears to be this plot behind The Pit & Pendulum, shown in yellow on the following image, and the car park is outlined in red...



Perhaps you can get a refund of the LR fee.  

Can't believe I'm already losing money before I even go to the court.😅
Do you think it is worthy to get another (correct) LR for this land?
It seems even I find out who owns the land, there is no guarantee I can find a contact..

IxianMSE

KeithP said:

From your photographs, the car park in question seems to be *link deleted again*.
GoogleStreetView tells us that the postcode of that Constantine Street car park is PL4 9AF.

But you Land Registry enquiry appears to be somewhere else. Although it references the same postcode - PL4 9AF - the Land Registry map does not show the car park.

In fact, the land marked in red on the LR map appears to be this plot behind The Pit & Pendulum, shown in yellow on the following image, and the car park is outlined in red...



Perhaps you can get a refund of the LR fee.  

NVM....
I'll be honest, I couldn't find the LR for this land...
The reason I fell for the wrong LR because it is the only one with matching description - a land! 😂

IxianMSE

Update: I'm sending this email to BWL to hold the case for 30 days

To whom it may concern,
 
I would like to inform you the following:
·         I deny any debt owed to your client Premier Parking Solutions Limited
·         I am seeking debt advice so you must put this case on hold for a minimum of 30 days under the PAP for debt claims 2017
·         I have sent your client Premier Parking Solutions Limited a SAR.
 
As the keeper of the vehicle, I would also like to remind you that the notice to keeper sent by your client was not delivered within the relevant period of 14 days as prescribed by section 9 (4) of the Schedule 4 of The Protection Of Freedoms Act 2012 and there can be no keeper liability.
Not to mention the additional debt recovery costs of £60 that is not a charge which is lawful.
I suggest that you close the case and advice your client to cancel the PCN.
The case will be defended in court in full and vigorously otherwise.
 
Your Faithfully,

KeithP

To whom it may concern,

'Dear Sirs' would be the correct salutation.

IxianMSE

KeithP said:

To whom it may concern,

'Dear Sirs' would be the correct salutation.

Thanks KeithP - corrected before sending.

Any suggestion on documents/evidence I should be requiring from BWL?
I'll send them another email later updating my "address for service", might as well ask for more.