Time of Economy 7

SAC2334

valiant24 said:

QrizB said:

macman said:

The time will only be consistent if it's a teleswitched meter-you haven't told us.

From the photos the E7 tariff switching is internal to the meter. No teleswitch, no external contactor, nothing.

The Aga is switched by a customer-owned device which needs to be separately synchronised with the meter.

Yes this is exactly right.  Synchronised with a meter which is itself showing the wrong time! ;-)

10 minutes is nt bad.. I ve seen these digital meters like this drift into the hours . you can rely on it but check every few months and don t forget to allow for the hour going back last Saturday in October . These meters do not adjust for BST into GMT or vice versa

Now clockwork analogue is a totally different ball game with the cheap 7 hours being anywhere within the 24 hours , so your 10 minutes out is nothing much to worry about. 

The suppliers never actually guarantee when the cheap rate comes on as they cannot control individual electric meters .So long as you get the 7 cheap rate they have fulfilled their side of the deal. The published times are only advisory 

valiant24

SAC2334 said:

valiant24 said:

QrizB said:

macman said:

The time will only be consistent if it's a teleswitched meter-you haven't told us.

From the photos the E7 tariff switching is internal to the meter. No teleswitch, no external contactor, nothing.

The Aga is switched by a customer-owned device which needs to be separately synchronised with the meter.

Yes this is exactly right.  Synchronised with a meter which is itself showing the wrong time! ;-)

10 minutes is nt bad.. I ve seen these digital meters like this drift into the hours . you can rely on it but check every few months and don t forget to allow for the hour going back last Saturday in October . These meters do not adjust for BST into GMT or vice versa

Now clockwork analogue is a totally different ball game with the cheap 7 hours being anywhere within the 24 hours , so your 10 minutes out is nothing much to worry about. 

The suppliers never actually guarantee when the cheap rate comes on as they cannot control individual electric meters .So long as you get the 7 cheap rate they have fulfilled their side of the deal. The published times are only advisory 

Thanks.  I get all this and it seems consistent with my experience.

But what I don't understand is that, if I have grasped what you are saying correctly, it is the meter itself that is determining when it flicks between Rate 1 and Rate 2 and vice versa, and nothing external to it.  My does this at when the timer reads 0848, regardless of what the time actually is.  So someone must have programmed it like this.  Why didn't they bother to tell me the time it will flip, or write it on the meter or something ....?

SAC2334

valiant24 said:

SAC2334 said:

valiant24 said:

QrizB said:

macman said:

The time will only be consistent if it's a teleswitched meter-you haven't told us.

From the photos the E7 tariff switching is internal to the meter. No teleswitch, no external contactor, nothing.

The Aga is switched by a customer-owned device which needs to be separately synchronised with the meter.

Yes this is exactly right.  Synchronised with a meter which is itself showing the wrong time! ;-)

10 minutes is nt bad.. I ve seen these digital meters like this drift into the hours . you can rely on it but check every few months and don t forget to allow for the hour going back last Saturday in October . These meters do not adjust for BST into GMT or vice versa

Now clockwork analogue is a totally different ball game with the cheap 7 hours being anywhere within the 24 hours , so your 10 minutes out is nothing much to worry about. 

The suppliers never actually guarantee when the cheap rate comes on as they cannot control individual electric meters .So long as you get the 7 cheap rate they have fulfilled their side of the deal. The published times are only advisory 

Thanks.  I get all this and it seems consistent with my experience.

But what I don't understand is that, if I have grasped what you are saying correctly, it is the meter itself that is determining when it flicks between Rate 1 and Rate 2 and vice versa, and nothing external to it.  My does this at when the timer reads 0848, regardless of what the time actually is.  So someone must have programmed it like this.  Why didn't they bother to tell me the time it will flip, or write it on the meter or something ....?

It would have been programmed and more or less correct time when the fitter installed it., Maybe  just to what his particular watch was showing..  they are just about bang on when new but even the most expensive clocks and watches can t keep accurate times ..only  radio controlled ones which can adjust every day can  be that accurate ..it's something you have to live with until you get a smart meter installed which should be correct like Radio.Teleswitch is ..
Suppliers can t tell you the time it will switch .it will have been set for the times of that region..in my area in South Yorks it was 12.30 am to 7.30 am in GMT and 1.30am.to 8.30 am in BST but they can t guarantee it . 

dunstonh

valiant24 said:

SAC2334 said:

valiant24 said:

QrizB said:

macman said:

The time will only be consistent if it's a teleswitched meter-you haven't told us.

From the photos the E7 tariff switching is internal to the meter. No teleswitch, no external contactor, nothing.

The Aga is switched by a customer-owned device which needs to be separately synchronised with the meter.

Yes this is exactly right.  Synchronised with a meter which is itself showing the wrong time! ;-)

10 minutes is nt bad.. I ve seen these digital meters like this drift into the hours . you can rely on it but check every few months and don t forget to allow for the hour going back last Saturday in October . These meters do not adjust for BST into GMT or vice versa

Now clockwork analogue is a totally different ball game with the cheap 7 hours being anywhere within the 24 hours , so your 10 minutes out is nothing much to worry about. 

The suppliers never actually guarantee when the cheap rate comes on as they cannot control individual electric meters .So long as you get the 7 cheap rate they have fulfilled their side of the deal. The published times are only advisory 

Thanks.  I get all this and it seems consistent with my experience.

But what I don't understand is that, if I have grasped what you are saying correctly, it is the meter itself that is determining when it flicks between Rate 1 and Rate 2 and vice versa, and nothing external to it.  My does this at when the timer reads 0848, regardless of what the time actually is.  So someone must have programmed it like this.  Why didn't they bother to tell me the time it will flip, or write it on the meter or something ....?

Your meter timer or your AGA timer?

The meter should switch to night rate when it hits the time programmed in the meter.   The meter clock goes wrong on some digital meters.  However, if the meter clock says it is 00.30 and 00.30 is your switchover time, then that should happen irrespective of what the real world time is.

Most digital meters have a sticker on them displaying the economy 7 hours for you at GMT. (you have to amend for BST). 

valiant24

dunstonh said:

Your meter timer or your AGA timer?

The meter should switch to night rate when it hits the time programmed in the meter.   The meter clock goes wrong on some digital meters.  However, if the meter clock says it is 00.30 and 00.30 is your switchover time, then that should happen respective of what the real world time is.

Most digital meters have a sticker on them displaying the economy 7 hours for you at GMT. (you have to amend for BST). 

Yes, my meter timer. The meter is currently 1h 6m behind BST.  So as I understand it from lohr and yourself, the cheap rate will always kick in when the meter thinks it's 0048 GMT (regardless of what the time actually is) and all I need to do is periodically compare the meter timer with the Honeywell timer which controls the Aga's programme to make sure that they stay consistent relative to one another.

dunstonh

So as I understand it from lohr and yourself, the cheap rate will always kick in when the meter thinks it's 0048 GMT (regardless of what the time actually is) and all I need to do is periodically compare the meter timer with the Honeywell timer which controls the Aga's programme to make sure that they stay consistent relative to one another.

Exactly that.   And make sure periodically means monthly or even fortnightly during the period the AGA is on.  

What I did to make things easier to monitor was set my AGA timer clock to match the meter clock.   Then I can tell much easier if they have gone out of sync. 

When you look at your meter, the default display is the unit count for the rate you are currently on.   So, your earlier picture shows 18377 for rate 1.    Rate 1 is daytime.     Rate 4 is often night rate (sometimes 2).   So, when you are on night rate terms, you would see 4 (or 2) where the 1 is and the unit count for that rate.

lohr500

On your meter, I believe the top red LED should also illuminate during the off peak period.

It would also be worth checking that the off peak switches back to peak at 07:48 on the meter's clock. When it was installed, it should have been programmed to give 7 hours off peak, but I would check to be sure!

valiant24

Can I be permitted a follow up on this?

If the Aga is already quite hot and isn't used much, is it conceivable that it will be at times during the charging period stop drawing electricity?  Or will it keep drawing until it becomes hotter than the core of the sun?

Conversely if it does have a fault with one of the boards and can't get up to full heat, it is at least under the principle of Conservation of Energy draw less electricity during charging?

Thanks

EssexHebridean

If it's anything like our storage heaters then it will be fitted with a thermostatic control that means when it reaches the "right" temperature it will just stop drawing power. It certainly sounds like you have a parallel with the NSH's anyway as those too take a couple of days to reach optimal charge/output when they are first used after the summer. (Coupled with a "lovely" smell of burning dust for a short while!) 

lohr500

Hi there,

You can!! Always happy to help with whatever knowledge I have picked up along the way in keeping our 30 amp AGA going without spending a fortune on AGA technicians.

On your first question, so long as the controller is working correctly, once the core reaches the required temperature (about 700C on the two door model), then power is switched off to the heating elements. Similar to the immersion heater element in a hot water cylinder.
I don't know about the Mk 2 electric AGAs like yours, but our 1st gen model also has a mechanical power breaker switch linked to a fluid filled temperature probe in the core. If the electronic controller fails and allows the elements to keep heating the core, then to prevent overheating the breaker is activated and shuts off supply to the heating elements. I believe it needs resetting manually so it doesn't just keep cycling on and off in the event of a fault.

On your second question, unless you have an early model with the single bank of elements (which is unlikely because the single bank was I think only fitted in the early days of the 1st gen models) then yes, it will draw less current when charging. 
The Blake and Bull replacement element sets are rated at :

Top set : 1.68kW
Middle set : 2.16kW
Bottom set : 1.56kW

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/203281634339

I suspect theirs are manufactured by the same firm that supplies AGA.I can buy the elements cheaper direct from my local AGA suppler than from Blake & Bull.

Given the combined requirement is 5.4kW, so long as you don't have any other high usage electrical devices running in the night  it is quite easy to spot if a bank has failed. Either by looking at the meter reading for a couple of hours immediately after the off peak AGA timer kicks in, or by looking at any smart meter usage info you may have on your energy account website or phone App.
But as mentioned earlier, if a bank has failed then the symptoms are cooler than usual hotplates and ovens later in the day, "Naughty Thing" light flashing to indicate charging is taking place during the peak period and a low reading on the analogue temperature gauge above the top oven door.