Identity checking, are banks allowed to retain copies of evidence like your driving licence

grumbler

Section62 said:

See here for a reason why banks would want to keep copies of people's ID documents when they open an account (and how it could help law enforcement agencies, if they bother to investigate)....

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6389046/large-sum-stolen-barclays-aided-the-theft-and-wont-help-what-do-i-do/p1

I don't see any reason here. When opening the account the fraudster proved her  ID with a driving licence. How can a copy of the licence help with anything? It just shows the name and the address of the account holder that the bank has anyway, without any copy.

And for those who don't have time to read, it's worth saying that our beloved law enforcement agencies refused to investigate. Possibly, they were snowed under never ending  AML checks.

Section62

grumbler said:

Section62 said:

See here for a reason why banks would want to keep copies of people's ID documents when they open an account (and how it could help law enforcement agencies, if they bother to investigate)....

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6389046/large-sum-stolen-barclays-aided-the-theft-and-wont-help-what-do-i-do/p1

I don't see any reason here. When opening the account the fraudster proved her  ID with a driving licence. How can a copy of the licence help with anything? It just shows the name and the address of the account holder that the bank has anyway, without any copy.

It was a photo driving licence.  As new ones have been for a good many years.

Having a photo of a criminal is quite useful. Usually.

grumbler

Section62 said:

grumbler said:

Section62 said:

See here for a reason why banks would want to keep copies of people's ID documents when they open an account (and how it could help law enforcement agencies, if they bother to investigate)....

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6389046/large-sum-stolen-barclays-aided-the-theft-and-wont-help-what-do-i-do/p1

I don't see any reason here. When opening the account the fraudster proved her  ID with a driving licence. How can a copy of the licence help with anything? It just shows the name and the address of the account holder that the bank has anyway, without any copy.

It was a photo driving licence.  As new ones have been for a good many years.

Having a photo of a criminal is quite useful. Usually.

Only if the licence was fake.

Section62

grumbler said:

Section62 said:

grumbler said:

Section62 said:

See here for a reason why banks would want to keep copies of people's ID documents when they open an account (and how it could help law enforcement agencies, if they bother to investigate)....

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6389046/large-sum-stolen-barclays-aided-the-theft-and-wont-help-what-do-i-do/p1

I don't see any reason here. When opening the account the fraudster proved her  ID with a driving licence. How can a copy of the licence help with anything? It just shows the name and the address of the account holder that the bank has anyway, without any copy.

It was a photo driving licence.  As new ones have been for a good many years.

Having a photo of a criminal is quite useful. Usually.

Only if the licence was fake.

I don't understand.  Are you suggesting having a 'genuine' photograph of someone suspected of a criminal act isn't helpful to the law enforcement agencies?  I understood police forces had spent millions on developing/buying Photofit and E-Fit technology specifically because having an image of the suspect is incredibly useful in detecting crime.

If you mean that a genuine driving licence will be linked to a genuine address, which should match the address of the details given to the bank, then yes.  But living at a particular address is not a permanent feature, unlike (in the vast majority of cases) people's facial features.

In this particular case there is a suggestion that the photo from the (kept copy of the) driving licence doesn't appear to be the same person who took part in a video call - which provides evidence there is possibly more than one person involved.  Are you really sure that something like that isn't helpful to the enforcement authorities?

Moreover, if the bank had checked the person in the video call was the same as the person in the filed photo, then perhaps things wouldn't have developed as they did?

phillw

grumbler said:
Only if the licence was fake.

How does someone make themselves look like the photo of you on your real driving license?

grumbler

Section62 said:

grumbler said:

Section62 said:

grumbler said:

Section62 said:

See here for a reason why banks would want to keep copies of people's ID documents when they open an account (and how it could help law enforcement agencies, if they bother to investigate)....

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6389046/large-sum-stolen-barclays-aided-the-theft-and-wont-help-what-do-i-do/p1

I don't see any reason here. When opening the account the fraudster proved her  ID with a driving licence. How can a copy of the licence help with anything? It just shows the name and the address of the account holder that the bank has anyway, without any copy.

It was a photo driving licence.  As new ones have been for a good many years.

Having a photo of a criminal is quite useful. Usually.

Only if the licence was fake.

I don't understand.  Are you suggesting having a 'genuine' photograph of someone suspected of a criminal act isn't helpful to the law enforcement agencies?

What I am suggesting is that the genuine good quality photograph is in DVLA database - it makes no sense for a company to keep a poor quality paper or digital copy of the DL for this purpose.

phillw said:

grumbler said:
Only if the licence was fake.

How does someone make themselves look like the photo of you on your real driving license?

By 'fake' I mean forged - with a real photo of 'someone'.
Did you read the full story?

Section62

grumbler said:

Section62 said:

grumbler said:

Section62 said:

grumbler said:

Section62 said:

See here for a reason why banks would want to keep copies of people's ID documents when they open an account (and how it could help law enforcement agencies, if they bother to investigate)....

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6389046/large-sum-stolen-barclays-aided-the-theft-and-wont-help-what-do-i-do/p1

I don't see any reason here. When opening the account the fraudster proved her  ID with a driving licence. How can a copy of the licence help with anything? It just shows the name and the address of the account holder that the bank has anyway, without any copy.

It was a photo driving licence.  As new ones have been for a good many years.

Having a photo of a criminal is quite useful. Usually.

Only if the licence was fake.

I don't understand.  Are you suggesting having a 'genuine' photograph of someone suspected of a criminal act isn't helpful to the law enforcement agencies?

What I am suggesting is that the genuine good quality photograph is in DVLA database - it makes no sense for a company to keep a poor quality paper or digital copy of the DL for this purpose.

Do DVLA keep copies of photos from foreign-issued driving licences in their database?

grumbler

Section62 said:

grumbler said:

Section62 said:

grumbler said:

Section62 said:

grumbler said:

Section62 said:

See here for a reason why banks would want to keep copies of people's ID documents when they open an account (and how it could help law enforcement agencies, if they bother to investigate)....

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6389046/large-sum-stolen-barclays-aided-the-theft-and-wont-help-what-do-i-do/p1

I don't see any reason here. When opening the account the fraudster proved her  ID with a driving licence. How can a copy of the licence help with anything? It just shows the name and the address of the account holder that the bank has anyway, without any copy.

It was a photo driving licence.  As new ones have been for a good many years.

Having a photo of a criminal is quite useful. Usually.

Only if the licence was fake.

I don't understand.  Are you suggesting having a 'genuine' photograph of someone suspected of a criminal act isn't helpful to the law enforcement agencies?

What I am suggesting is that the genuine good quality photograph is in DVLA database - it makes no sense for a company to keep a poor quality paper or digital copy of the DL for this purpose.

Do DVLA keep copies of photos from foreign-issued driving licences in their database?

OK, for a foreign license this does make some sense, but I am not sure that UK bunks accept foreign licences when opening accounts and it wasn't foreign in the case that you posted to demonstrate a "reason why banks would want to keep copies".

artyboy

This is one of the most ludicrous threads I've seen for a while (and not just because banking KYC is an area I've worked in for much of my career). As with so many procedures to manage risk, evidence must be retained to demonstrate that those procedures have been followed.

That is then checked and audited internally, and may be checked by external regulatory or law enforcement agencies. To ensure that the risk - in this case of financial crime - is being managed correctly and in line with policy/law.

Who on earth would accept that a policy is being followed correctly 100% of the time just because it's written down as a policy? That in itself would be considered a serious failure to manage risk.

Oh yes, Mary from the new accounts department opened that account. She must have checked Mr Smith's ID because that's the procedure and she signed to say she did it. No, we can't prove it, but she wouldn't have cut corners or made a mistake would she? No, we can't ask her because she emigrated to El Salvador last week. But I'm sure it's all fine eh...

SMH...

Section62

grumbler said:

Section62 said:

grumbler said:

Section62 said:

grumbler said:

Section62 said:

grumbler said:

Section62 said:

See here for a reason why banks would want to keep copies of people's ID documents when they open an account (and how it could help law enforcement agencies, if they bother to investigate)....

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6389046/large-sum-stolen-barclays-aided-the-theft-and-wont-help-what-do-i-do/p1

I don't see any reason here. When opening the account the fraudster proved her  ID with a driving licence. How can a copy of the licence help with anything? It just shows the name and the address of the account holder that the bank has anyway, without any copy.

It was a photo driving licence.  As new ones have been for a good many years.

Having a photo of a criminal is quite useful. Usually.

Only if the licence was fake.

I don't understand.  Are you suggesting having a 'genuine' photograph of someone suspected of a criminal act isn't helpful to the law enforcement agencies?

What I am suggesting is that the genuine good quality photograph is in DVLA database - it makes no sense for a company to keep a poor quality paper or digital copy of the DL for this purpose.

Do DVLA keep copies of photos from foreign-issued driving licences in their database?

OK, for a foreign license this does make some sense, but I am not sure that UK bunks accept foreign licences when opening accounts....

I have friends who used a foreign (EU) driving licence as photo ID to open bank accounts, the banks didn't seem to mind. I'd imagine that policy may vary over time and between different banks and other financial institutions.

grumbler said:

....and it wasn't foreign in the case that you posted to demonstrate a "reason why banks would want to keep copies".

I get the feeling you will be sticking to your guns that the banks and everyone else is wrong and you are right regardless of what is said.

But as a clarification of why this case demonstrates a "reason why banks would want to keep copies", if the driving licence which was used as ID in this case was fake or doctored, having a photocopy or scan of the document presented could give useful information about the source of the fake/doctored document.  The personal information (and photo) on a document are not the only providers of information/evidence which could be useful in the detection of a crime.