Identity checking, are banks allowed to retain copies of evidence like your driving licence

grumbler

Section62 said:

grumbler said:

Section62 said:

grumbler said:

Daliah said:If any sort of credit or savings account was fraudulently opened in my name, first question I would ask is how the bank had verified my ID. If they say they had seen my passport or DL, I would ask them to prove it. If they can show me a copy, they might be off the hook, as we can then move on to verify that it's a copy of my true ID etc etc. If they can't show the copy, they have nowhere to hide.

How did this work in the past, when there were no copiers in every branch?

Did they have (regulatory controlled) ID checks back in those days? 

Don't misquote me. The part of the post I replied to was about proving something to the customer, not about legislation.

I haven't misquoted you.  I deleted the surplus "OK" in the section of your post I quoted, but that was the only change. 

OK, let's call it 'quoted out of context' and replied accordingly.

I don't see where I said anything about "RETAINING copies"?  It was a continuation of what I was saying about branch application processes in those days.  I.e. based on the staff's impression of the customer sitting in front of them, not a process including document checks to comply with specific regulatory requirements.

The topic of the thread is RETAINING. What was your point if not that now you can apply remotely, with digital copies, instead of real IDs in a branch? I agree it's better, but doesn't justify retaining the copies - they didn't do this in the past. Nothing changed except the legislation. 

Section62

grumbler said:

Section62 said:

grumbler said:

Section62 said:

grumbler said:

Daliah said:If any sort of credit or savings account was fraudulently opened in my name, first question I would ask is how the bank had verified my ID. If they say they had seen my passport or DL, I would ask them to prove it. If they can show me a copy, they might be off the hook, as we can then move on to verify that it's a copy of my true ID etc etc. If they can't show the copy, they have nowhere to hide.

How did this work in the past, when there were no copiers in every branch?

Did they have (regulatory controlled) ID checks back in those days? 

Don't misquote me. The part of the post I replied to was about proving something to the customer, not about legislation.

I haven't misquoted you.  I deleted the surplus "OK" in the section of your post I quoted, but that was the only change. 

OK, let's call it 'quoted out of context' and replied accordingly.

No, I quoted a section of your post where you referred to a time when branches didn't have copiers, and asked a question - whether they actually had ID checks in those days.  The question relates directly to what you said.

grumbler said:

I don't see where I said anything about "RETAINING copies"?  It was a continuation of what I was saying about branch application processes in those days.  I.e. based on the staff's impression of the customer sitting in front of them, not a process including document checks to comply with specific regulatory requirements.

The topic of the thread is RETAINING. What was your point if not that now you can apply remotely, with digital copies, instead of real IDs in a branch? I agree it's better, but doesn't justify retaining the copies - they didn't do this in the past. Nothing changed except the legislation. 

That wasn't my point. It was a question, and nothing to do with remote applications.

The point I would have made - subject to your response and as explained in my previous post - was that if there wasn't a need to check ID documents then the absence of a photocopier in branch makes your point entirely moot.

Nobody would have complained that a fraudster's ID documents hadn't been photocopied as proof they had been checked if there was not a (routine/regulatory) process to check ID documents (and keep copies).

Specifically, if there was no need to check ID documents there would have been no need to "RETAIN..." them.

grumbler

I don't know, maybe in the very remote past they opened accounts without any checks. However, I think they started making checks long before they started retaining copies as well. My point is that nothing changed since then except the questionable legislation that makes it necessary to keep the copies now. 

robatwork

jackieblack said:

robatwork said:

r0b3rt said:

Hello I'm after a bit of clarification / advice.

I was on the phone to my bank HSBC who once again couldn't or wouldn't give a reason for me having to call them to resolve yet another issue and furthermore seem incapable as ever of apologising.  Anyway part of what came out of the call was that the next time I'm in branch I'll have to provide them with my driving licence and a utility bill or similar (I get why, for identity checking) but I queried this as only a week or so ago I had already provided them with such.  Now what I was told alarmed me as they said that this time I will need to produce them so that copies can be taken to be retained on file, er you what now? no.  I've never had this before when they're just doing an identity check: they have a look, punch in some details, do some checks and hand me my licence etc back to me.

Now I get that from time to time banks and the like need to identity check (using your driving licence or passport numbers to do a check via the relevant computer systems) but retaining entire copies of my driving licence and a utility bill or similar on file .. I don't recall in the terms they mention anything about retaining copies be it physical or electronic when identity checking, does anyone know if they can do this because if they shouldn't be and I am asked for these next time I'm in branch then I'd like to politely tell them to well **** off with that demand, certainly use the number to do a lookup etc but stop overreaching.

Robert

I suggest you don't ever stay at a hotel then, it will come as a rather rude shock to you.

No hotel I’ve ever stayed in has ever retained a copy of my passport or any other form of ID 🤷🏻‍♀️

I realise this is straying slightly OT, and the OP is a "1 post to light the blue touch paper then stand well back" merchant but....

On the continent (EU) the last few times I have stayed in a hotel I have either had a copy taken or had to put my passport details in online. This is in the last 12 months. Maybe you only stay in B&Bs?

In some countries the hotels have a legal duty to not only take your credentials but to report the fact you are staying there to the local police.

None of this worries me unduly and the OP's slightly concerning paranoia will mean he has a stressful time with lots of institutions.

[Deleted User]

robatwork said:

jackieblack said:

robatwork said:

r0b3rt said:

Hello I'm after a bit of clarification / advice.

I was on the phone to my bank HSBC who once again couldn't or wouldn't give a reason for me having to call them to resolve yet another issue and furthermore seem incapable as ever of apologising.  Anyway part of what came out of the call was that the next time I'm in branch I'll have to provide them with my driving licence and a utility bill or similar (I get why, for identity checking) but I queried this as only a week or so ago I had already provided them with such.  Now what I was told alarmed me as they said that this time I will need to produce them so that copies can be taken to be retained on file, er you what now? no.  I've never had this before when they're just doing an identity check: they have a look, punch in some details, do some checks and hand me my licence etc back to me.

Now I get that from time to time banks and the like need to identity check (using your driving licence or passport numbers to do a check via the relevant computer systems) but retaining entire copies of my driving licence and a utility bill or similar on file .. I don't recall in the terms they mention anything about retaining copies be it physical or electronic when identity checking, does anyone know if they can do this because if they shouldn't be and I am asked for these next time I'm in branch then I'd like to politely tell them to well **** off with that demand, certainly use the number to do a lookup etc but stop overreaching.

Robert

I suggest you don't ever stay at a hotel then, it will come as a rather rude shock to you.

No hotel I’ve ever stayed in has ever retained a copy of my passport or any other form of ID 🤷🏻‍♀️

I realise this is straying slightly OT, and the OP is a "1 post to light the blue touch paper then stand well back" merchant but....

On the continent (EU) the last few times I have stayed in a hotel I have either had a copy taken or had to put my passport details in online. This is in the last 12 months. Maybe you only stay in B&Bs?

In some countries the hotels have a legal duty to not only take your credentials but to report the fact you are staying there to the local police.

None of this worries me unduly and the OP's slightly concerning paranoia will mean he has a stressful time with lots of institutions.

Usually, one of my passports or my driving licence is used (as photo ID) to visually confirm my identity at hotels - domestically & abroad. Never have they taken photocopies..!

Ballard

Deleted_User said:

robatwork said:

jackieblack said:

robatwork said:

r0b3rt said:

Hello I'm after a bit of clarification / advice.

I was on the phone to my bank HSBC who once again couldn't or wouldn't give a reason for me having to call them to resolve yet another issue and furthermore seem incapable as ever of apologising.  Anyway part of what came out of the call was that the next time I'm in branch I'll have to provide them with my driving licence and a utility bill or similar (I get why, for identity checking) but I queried this as only a week or so ago I had already provided them with such.  Now what I was told alarmed me as they said that this time I will need to produce them so that copies can be taken to be retained on file, er you what now? no.  I've never had this before when they're just doing an identity check: they have a look, punch in some details, do some checks and hand me my licence etc back to me.

Now I get that from time to time banks and the like need to identity check (using your driving licence or passport numbers to do a check via the relevant computer systems) but retaining entire copies of my driving licence and a utility bill or similar on file .. I don't recall in the terms they mention anything about retaining copies be it physical or electronic when identity checking, does anyone know if they can do this because if they shouldn't be and I am asked for these next time I'm in branch then I'd like to politely tell them to well **** off with that demand, certainly use the number to do a lookup etc but stop overreaching.

Robert

I suggest you don't ever stay at a hotel then, it will come as a rather rude shock to you.

No hotel I’ve ever stayed in has ever retained a copy of my passport or any other form of ID 🤷🏻‍♀️

I realise this is straying slightly OT, and the OP is a "1 post to light the blue touch paper then stand well back" merchant but....

On the continent (EU) the last few times I have stayed in a hotel I have either had a copy taken or had to put my passport details in online. This is in the last 12 months. Maybe you only stay in B&Bs?

In some countries the hotels have a legal duty to not only take your credentials but to report the fact you are staying there to the local police.

None of this worries me unduly and the OP's slightly concerning paranoia will mean he has a stressful time with lots of institutions.

Usually, one of my passports or my driving licence is used (as photo ID) to visually confirm my identity at hotels - domestically & abroad. Never have they taken photocopies..!

I’ve had my passport photocopied at hotels numerous times, particularly in Asia. 

Nebulous2

On my first visit to Spain the hotel kept my passport for the duration of my visit..... 

Emmia

I've had to show my passport when buying things in Zara in Spain, and I've had it copied at various hotels in Europe.

Chrysalis

Anti laundering laws conflict with basic security principles, I dont like the idea of my passport copy been stored somewhere by a 3rd party, but I think its forced on them by financial regulators.

Some companies wont be required to do it though and they just do because of over zealous policies and potential data collection.

Section62

See here for a reason why banks would want to keep copies of people's ID documents when they open an account (and how it could help law enforcement agencies, if they bother to investigate)....

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6389046/large-sum-stolen-barclays-aided-the-theft-and-wont-help-what-do-i-do/p1