Identity checking, are banks allowed to retain copies of evidence like your driving licence

Bigwheels1111

dil1976 said:

Bigwheels1111 said:

3 of my bank accounts don’t have id, ie passport or driving license.
As did not have them when I opened the accounts, I would not retroactively provide then either.

Please don't complain when someone manages to open credit accounts in your name then because the company providing it didn't ask for sufficient proof of ID

Now you need id, so that should not happen. Well I hope not anyway.
A bit off topic but I got asked for driving license to get my blood test done at my doctors.
Whats with that.
I never carry id after all the covid issues but that’s another story, only a picture of license if on uk holiday.

Section62

Bigwheels1111 said:

3 of my bank accounts don’t have id, ie passport or driving license.
As did not have them when I opened the accounts, I would not retroactively provide then either.

In which case you could probably expect a "We are closing your accounts letter".  Unless you can provide other forms of ID to the satisfaction of the bank/building society in question.

grumbler

Exodi said:

r0b3rt said:

they said that this time I will need to produce them so that copies can be taken to be retained on file, er you what now? no.

r0b3rt said:

next time I'm in branch then I'd like to politely tell them to well **** off with that demand

Honestly, at this point I only have sympathies with the bank. Your problem is that they're being overcautious with security? Any reason why you're so precious over your ID being scanned?

Half the threads on this forum are people getting scammed, screaming "THE BANKS SHOULD HAVE DONE MORE" and the other half are "THE BANKS SHOULD HAVE DONE LESS"... they can't win.

Literally the last thread I posted on in this subforum was about an account that got fraudently opened with HSBC, where the OP was absolutely furious with HSBC for not having stricter ID checks. Now I'm reading a thread where the OP is furious with HSBC for doing too many ID checks...

dil1976 said:

Bigwheels1111 said:

3 of my bank accounts don’t have id, ie passport or driving license.
As did not have them when I opened the accounts, I would not retroactively provide then either.

Please don't complain when someone manages to open credit accounts in your name then because the company providing it didn't ask for sufficient proof of ID

The question was about RETAINING copies, that has nothing to do with security and checking the ID.

In fact, if the copies were not held by far too many organisations, there would be far slimmer chance of them being stolen and used fraudulently for opening accounts remotely.

Daliah

grumbler said:

The question was about RETAINING copies, that has nothing to do with security, and checking the ID.

How would a bank prove they have had sight of the ID?

If any sort of credit or savings account was fraudulently opened in my name, first question I would ask is how the bank had verified my ID. If they say they had seen my passport or DL, I would ask them to prove it. If they can show me a copy, they might be off the hook, as we can then move on to verify that it's a copy of my true ID etc etc. If they can't show the copy, they have nowhere to hide. 

Apart from a bank's ability to provide this sort of evidence to their customers, they also have similar obligations to authorities,  regarding compliance with their licence and with money laundering legislation.

grumbler

Daliah said:

grumbler said:

The question was about RETAINING copies, that has nothing to do with security, and checking the ID.

How would a bank prove they have had sight of the ID?

Both posts I quoted said nothing about proving anything - only about checks and security

If any sort of credit or savings account was fraudulently opened in my name, first question I would ask is how the bank had verified my ID. If they say they had seen my passport or DL, I would ask them to prove it. If they can show me a copy, they might be off the hook, as we can then move on to verify that it's a copy of my true ID etc etc. If they can't show the copy, they have nowhere to hide.

OK.

How did this work in the past, when there were no copiers in every branch?

Does this prove anything now, when they usually see the copies, not the real documents? Digital copies lost their value and keep loosing it - exactly because they are retained by hundreds of various companies and mainly to prove something to the authorities, not the customers.

Apart from a bank's ability to provide this sort of evidence to their customers, they also have similar obligations to authorities,  regarding compliance with their licence and with money laundering legislation.

If something is in legislation, this doesn't mean that this cannot be questioned. There are many stupid laws around. S75 springs to mind.

Section62

grumbler said:

Daliah said:If any sort of credit or savings account was fraudulently opened in my name, first question I would ask is how the bank had verified my ID. If they say they had seen my passport or DL, I would ask them to prove it. If they can show me a copy, they might be off the hook, as we can then move on to verify that it's a copy of my true ID etc etc. If they can't show the copy, they have nowhere to hide.

How did this work in the past, when there were no copiers in every branch?

Did they have (regulatory controlled) ID checks back in those days?  Or was the ability to open an account simply based on whether or not the Branch Manager liked the cut of your jib?

grumbler

Section62 said:

grumbler said:

Daliah said:If any sort of credit or savings account was fraudulently opened in my name, first question I would ask is how the bank had verified my ID. If they say they had seen my passport or DL, I would ask them to prove it. If they can show me a copy, they might be off the hook, as we can then move on to verify that it's a copy of my true ID etc etc. If they can't show the copy, they have nowhere to hide.

How did this work in the past, when there were no copiers in every branch?

Did they have (regulatory controlled) ID checks back in those days? 

Don't misquote me. The part of the post I replied to was about proving something to the customer, not about legislation.

Or was the ability to open an account simply based on whether or not the Branch Manager liked the cut of your jib?

Again, this isn't about RETAINING copies.  I understand that digital copies can stolen in the process of checking them, but this is far less likely than if they are retained for years after being checked.

Section62

grumbler said:

Section62 said:

grumbler said:

Daliah said:If any sort of credit or savings account was fraudulently opened in my name, first question I would ask is how the bank had verified my ID. If they say they had seen my passport or DL, I would ask them to prove it. If they can show me a copy, they might be off the hook, as we can then move on to verify that it's a copy of my true ID etc etc. If they can't show the copy, they have nowhere to hide.

How did this work in the past, when there were no copiers in every branch?

Did they have (regulatory controlled) ID checks back in those days? 

Don't misquote me. The part of the post I replied to was about proving something to the customer, not about legislation.

I haven't misquoted you.  I deleted the surplus "OK" in the section of your post I quoted, but that was the only change. The original posts are still there and can be used to confirm that fact.

If (I posed it as a question) there were no ID checks at that time then why would a customer expect anything (ID related) to be proved to them in the event that someone else had fraudulently attempted to open an account in their name?

grumbler said:

Or was the ability to open an account simply based on whether or not the Branch Manager liked the cut of your jib?

Again, this isn't about RETAINING copies. I understand that digital copies can stolen in the process of checking them, but this is far less likely than if they are retained for years after being checked.

I don't see where I said anything about "RETAINING copies"?  It was a continuation of what I was saying about branch application processes in those days.  I.e. based on the staff's impression of the customer sitting in front of them, not a process including document checks to comply with specific regulatory requirements.

oldagetraveller1

I recently applied for a Monzo account to use as a means of switching it for a "reward". They declined, first time ever that's happened. . Could have been Starling though?

I'm sure it was during that application I had to upload pictures of my Driving Licence and a video showing my face and reading some script.

I would be more than a bit hacked off if those were retained by them. Hopefully not?

I can understand the requirement because they are online only banks. Unlike the "major" versions where it's possible to visit a branch to submit any further information, that's if you can find one still open.

DullGreyGuy

r0b3rt said:
Anyway part of what came out of the call was that the next time I'm in branch I'll have to provide them with my driving licence and a utility bill or similar (I get why, for identity checking) but I queried this as only a week or so ago I had already provided them with such.  Now what I was told alarmed me as they said that this time I will need to produce them so that copies can be taken to be retained on file, er you what now? no.  I've never had this before when they're just doing an identity check: they have a look, punch in some details, do some checks and hand me my licence etc back to me.

And in recent years a number of banks have had big fines because they were unable to substantiate they were doing sufficient to prevent money laundering etc. 

What proof do they have of what you showed them by someone just keying something into a computer? You could have simply given them the passport number and not actually a copy of your passport to show its yours