Keys not given at time of completion?

Ath_Wat

Brie said:

I will agree that having keys is not relevant.  I would suggest a locksmith rather than a battering ram to enter though if only to lessen the damage being done.  Either way it may be a shock to the tenants who may not even know the house has actually been sold.  

I said you can only enter an unoccupied house and that if it is occupied you can't enter it at all.  So no shock to any tenants.

Brie

Ath_Wat said:

Brie said:

I will agree that having keys is not relevant.  I would suggest a locksmith rather than a battering ram to enter though if only to lessen the damage being done.  Either way it may be a shock to the tenants who may not even know the house has actually been sold.  

I said you can only enter an unoccupied house and that if it is occupied you can't enter it at all.  So no shock to any tenants.

My comments weren't only in response to yours. 

Still would like to know if one can enter one's own property without notice to occupants.

user1977

Brie said:

Ath_Wat said:

Brie said:

I will agree that having keys is not relevant.  I would suggest a locksmith rather than a battering ram to enter though if only to lessen the damage being done.  Either way it may be a shock to the tenants who may not even know the house has actually been sold.  

I said you can only enter an unoccupied house and that if it is occupied you can't enter it at all.  So no shock to any tenants.

Still would like to know if one can enter one's own property without notice to occupants.

What's the purpose of the visit?

lisyloo

Brie said:

I will agree that having keys is not relevant.  I would suggest a locksmith rather than a battering ram to enter though if only to lessen the damage being done.  Either way it may be a shock to the tenants who may not even know the house has actually been sold.  

Would it be legal to enter a house occupied by tenants without giving any notice if one knows they are there?  It's not an emergency.

why on earth wouldn’t you just knock on the door first? Or try other less confrontation methods like the post?

Breaking into someones home could be disastrous If they are startled and feel threatened. I believe they are entitled to use reasonable and proportionate force to defend themselves and if someone broke into my children’s home I’d be fiercely defensive as would most parents.

The tenants/occupiers may be innocent and unaware and there be children involved.

Surely try sensible steps to establish the situation first before breaking in to someone’s home.

Yes a landlord can visit and request access even without notice, but forcibly breaking in is a whole different matter.

I feel for the buyers but the law is there to protect tenants and occupiers who are entitled to be there so this needs to be handled properly however inconvenient and costly that is for the buyer.

Ath_Wat

Brie said:

Ath_Wat said:

Brie said:

I will agree that having keys is not relevant.  I would suggest a locksmith rather than a battering ram to enter though if only to lessen the damage being done.  Either way it may be a shock to the tenants who may not even know the house has actually been sold.  

I said you can only enter an unoccupied house and that if it is occupied you can't enter it at all.  So no shock to any tenants.

My comments weren't only in response to yours. 

Still would like to know if one can enter one's own property without notice to occupants.

Nobody has claimed you can enter a tenanted house in a non emergency; you can't.  The tenants could change the locks if they choose.  If it's not on fire, or similar, the landlord must provide notice and get it agreed.

How are you defining "occupants"?  In this case we have been told they are the tenants of the old owner and therefore continue to be tenants, but there are other sorts of occupants.

Brie

As the OP hasn't returned to explain the situation further we don't know at this point if the people living in the house are tenants or occupants.  We don't know if the vendor told their tenants that the house was sold, we don't know if those tenants are now tenants and paying rent to the new owners, or if they are now squatters or if they continue to pay rent to the previous vendor.  

I'm certainly not suggesting entering the house without warning but know (from experience) that people will enter houses without notice not realising there is someone there.  But the owner knows someone is living there.  But if there is no relationship between the owner and the people living in the house then is it illegal to enter it?  

Sorry if this sounds confused but I know very little about tenant/landlord law.  

But I still think there's going to be a big stink when the bank holding the mortgage finds out.

TripleH

To clarify, my suggestion of going to the house was to knock on the door to see if anyone was living there.

As much it would be to listen to what the occupants have to say. To get their names and understand the position they are in.

It may be that they are moving out but are just awaiting the new owner to hand over keys.

I would not recommend going in in an aggressive manner but more as a 'what is going on as your former landlord has told me nothing', friendly manner, almost to find out facts so that when you go to a solicitor, you are better prepared.

It might not be the correct procedure, but going and knocking on the door of a house you bought as vacant possession does not sound incorrect as long as you only ask questions. But again this is just my thought on the situation.

lisyloo

Whether it’s legal probably depends on whether the current people are entitled to be there.
During a break up SIL was told by her divorce solicitor that her husband was entitled to break in if she changed the locks.

personally I think it’s quite dangerous especially without knowing who is there.
As a woman I’d attack any man who broke into my house until they backed off and argue that it was “proportionate force”. If they are coming at you then it’s proportionate and you are allowed to defend yourself with proportionate force under UK law.
I speak as a law abiding sober woman.
I dread to think what might happen if it’s a chapter of the hell’s angels or the black belt karate club you try to break in on.
so I think it’s a really really stupid idea which could end up with someone in hospital when other routes (like letter or a knock on the door) are available.

Ath_Wat

lisyloo said:

Whether it’s legal probably depends on whether the current people are entitled to be there.
During a break up SIL was told by her divorce solicitor that her husband was entitled to break in if she changed the locks.

personally I think it’s quite dangerous especially without knowing who is there.
As a woman I’d attack any man who broke into my house until they backed off and argue that it was “proportionate force”. If they are coming at you then it’s proportionate and you are allowed to defend yourself with proportionate force under UK law.
I speak as a law abiding sober woman.
I dread to think what might happen if it’s a chapter of the hell’s angels or the black belt karate club you try to break in on.
so I think it’s a really really stupid idea which could end up with someone in hospital when other routes (like letter or a knock on the door) are available.

Nobody has suggested breaking into a house with people in it.

I said you can break into a vacant house you have bought if you haven't been given the keys by the estate agent (keys get lost on occasions after all), and someone seems to have misinterpreted that, which has started this.  

babyblade41

sorry, after reading everything in this thread and OP's other posts I don't buy any of it