Warm Home Discount Scheme 2022 - confusing info

Muttleythefrog

Just to quickly echo what calcotti said.... would expect a property built 1990s onwards to be pretty energy efficient so an EPC (which I should warn is far from scientifically comprehensive... it's a pretty crude affair that probably won't take account of some factors I see you mention in later post) might not be much use.

This link might give general indication as it has graphs with property grouped ages and property types with likelihood of C rating or better. https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/housing/articles/ageofthepropertyisthebiggestsinglefactorinenergyefficiencyofhomes/2021-11-01

Probably you can take a good stab at estimating energy efficiency of property using the factors involved.... or here's a thought.... got any neighbours with similar property style, age and heating system... if so check to see if they have an EPC... they're publicly available https://find-energy-certificate.service.gov.uk/find-a-certificate/type-of-property

ptanithmillard

calcotti said:

I would imagine that a property built in the 1990s would be expected to be reasonably energy efficient.

From what I am seeing I think that is probably the case for most properties. However, our house is an ice-box in winter and an oven in summer. It is mostly open-planned and we have already been told the radiators are too small for the size of the rooms. There is no radiator on our upstairs landing so being opened planned the radiators in our living room also have to heat the stairwell and upstairs landing. The radiators are placed under the windows in all three bedrooms and the living room so we lose some heat there as well. It takes well over an hour to get our living room up to temperature in the morning and the temperature drops drastically within an hour of the heating turning off. Even with the warm home discount, we have been rationing the heating for the past 6 years wrapping up in blankets is nothing new to us. Haven't yet used the heating this year, was thinking about using it now the temperature has dropped but now seriously reconsidering that.

poppy12345

ptanithmillard said:

poppy12345 said:

ptanithmillard said:

sheramber said:

Have you tried the online form? I t might tell you why you are not eligible.

Complete it as if you have not received a letter.

I have tried that but unfortunately, it does not give a definitive answer.

To quote from the page:

"You probably aren't eligible for the Warm Home Discount this year" and "Your property will need an Energy Performance Certificate (EPC) for us to confirm your eligibility. This certificate tells us how energy efficient your property is"

What it says exactly is ...

What you will need when you call

Your property will need an Energy Performance Certificate (EPC) for us to confirm your eligibility. This certificate tells us how energy efficient your property is. If your property's EPC has expired, we will still accept it.

(Wouldn't let me post the part that contains links)

I think I'm missing the point of your post. I truncated my post because none of the other information is really relevant. I am aware of how to get an EPC and that the cheapest quote I have for my area is £50. The age, size, and type of the property is already known and was also provided again on the online form, like sheramber suggested. Which then throws up this message. If the needed information is already provided then why not give a definitive answer? Why say we need an EPC, unless there is some other factor beyond size, age, and type that the EPC can provide? This is what is confusing. But like sheramber also said nobody on here is going to be able to say what information it is that they don't have. Even their own helpline couldn't. So I'm just shouting into the wind, as it were.

Sorry, i was distracted (not feeling great today) and forgot to finish what i wanted to say. The point of my comment was that although i have an EPC it actually expired in March 2022 and was valid for 10 years prior to that. Giving the information in the checker it says i also probably don't qualify despite my property being built between 1900 - 1929 but the size of my property makes me not eligible. If my house was 4 Sq meters bigger or i lived 2 doors away i would qualify. My energy rating is D but that's not taking into consideration. I do wonder if i had an up to date EPC whether i would qualify.

ptanithmillard

Spoonie_Turtle said:

In the table the ranges are 1983-92 then 1993-99.  What type and size is it?  I'll try to find it for you.

Thank you for your help.

I used excels search feature but I think I know what I did wrong. I think I was searching for 1990, 1991 etc when I should have just used the last digits.

House is mid-terrace and 69m2 which is probably going to come up under the low energy cost. Though I would beg to differ. But what can you do.

ptanithmillard

poppy12345 said:

Sorry, i was distracted (not feeling great today) and forgot to finish what i wanted to say. The point of my comment was that although i have an EPC it actually expired in March 2022 and was valid for 10 years prior to that. Giving the information in the checker it says i also probably don't qualify despite my property being built between 1900 - 1929 but the size of my property makes me not eligible. If my house was 4 Sq meters bigger or i lived 2 doors away i would qualify. My energy rating is D but that's not taking into consideration. I do wonder if i had an up to date EPC whether i would qualify.

I hope you feel better soon. 

The new system is what it is, but it seems a bit unfair to deem all houses of the same age, size and type as all equally energy efficient with the same heating costs. This house we currently live in is one of the coldest houses I have ever set foot in during the winter and so hard to keep warm. The walls and floors seem to trap and radiate the cold back out as soon as the heating goes off.

Spoonie_Turtle

Actually if your house is rather large, sneaking into the 83-92 band might have saved you.  The results are:

Any type of property over 138m²
Bungalow over 90m²
Detached over 83m²
Semi-detached over 96m²
End terrace over 101m²
Mid terrace over 114m²
Flat over 90m² (I am extremely confused there.  Checked, rechecked, triple and quadruple checked.  I can upload the highlighted screenshots if anyone wants to check I didn't miss anything.  It definitely says 1983-92, Flat, 90-96m², high energy cost score. I am utterly baffled.)


Ah, I see you found your permutation.  I'll leave the results up as a matter of interest though anyway.

The calculation does not take into account any realities such as being open-plan or having undersized heaters.  Nor in the opposite direction, if an older house has had heating and insulation upgraded to make it a much lower cost building than others of its age/type/size.  It also doesn't take into account flats being exposed on all 3 sides of an L shape with a car park underneath, if I remember a recent comment correctly.  No nuance whatsoever, they run the calculation and that's that.

Edit to add

ptanithmillard said:
This house we currently live in is one of the coldest houses I have ever set foot in during the winter and so hard to keep warm. The walls and floors seem to trap and radiate the cold back out as soon as the heating goes off.

The energy board is knowledgeable here, if you wish to ask for any advice.  What's often said is it can take a long time to thoroughly heat the fabric of the house and unless that happens it will not retain heat once the heating is turned off.  Of course that initial heating costs a scary amount (especially this year) and while it should then take less to keep it up to a tolerable temperature, if you can't afford the initial thorough heating then you can't.  And undersized radiators just add to the problem.

ptanithmillard

Spoonie_Turtle said:

Actually if your house is rather large, sneaking into the 83-92 band might have saved you.  The results are:

Any type of property over 138m²
Bungalow over 90m²
Detached over 83m²
Semi-detached over 96m²
End terrace over 101m²
Mid terrace over 114m²
Flat over 90m² (I am extremely confused there.  Checked, rechecked, triple and quadruple checked.  I can upload the highlighted screenshots if anyone wants to check I didn't miss anything.  It definitely says 1983-92, Flat, 90-96m², high energy cost score. I am utterly baffled.)


Ah, I see you found your permutation.  I'll leave the results up as a matter of interest though anyway.

The calculation does not take into account any realities such as being open-plan or having undersized heaters.  Nor in the opposite direction, if an older house has had heating and insulation upgraded to make it a much lower cost building than others of its age/type/size.  It also doesn't take into account flats being exposed on all 3 sides of an L shape with a car park underneath, if I remember a recent comment correctly.  No nuance whatsoever, they run the calculation and that's that.

Edit to add

ptanithmillard said:
This house we currently live in is one of the coldest houses I have ever set foot in during the winter and so hard to keep warm. The walls and floors seem to trap and radiate the cold back out as soon as the heating goes off.

The energy board is knowledgeable here, if you wish to ask for any advice.  What's often said is it can take a long time to thoroughly heat the fabric of the house and unless that happens it will not retain heat once the heating is turned off.  Of course that initial heating costs a scary amount (especially this year) and while it should then take less to keep it up to a tolerable temperature, if you can't afford the initial thorough heating then you can't.  And undersized radiators just add to the problem.

Thank you so much for all your help. You have really gone above and beyond.

The first winter I moved back with my folks I had the heating on non-stop at 25 degrees for two days, trying to chase the cold out. That didn't work for long so I would be interested/frightened to know just how it would take to do it properly. Back then I had only just given up work to become their full-time carer and still had a bit of money to fall back on. Six years on carers allowance and my bank balance just isn't what it was so I'd be loath to even try doing something like that at the current time. Still I have been blessed with the ability to budget so I am sure we will be able to manage without the WHD this time. Now I'm just worried about the means-tested cost of living help in 2023. If they are going to use the same criteria I can see some very difficult times ahead for us. So fingers crossed that they won't.

Spoonie_Turtle

Is Carers Allowance your only income?

ptanithmillard

Spoonie_Turtle said:

Is Carers Allowance your only income?

Yes, but mum gets PIP and Dad gets DLA so it's not as bad as it sounds.

calcotti

ptanithmillard said:

Spoonie_Turtle said:

Is Carers Allowance your only income?

Yes, but mum gets PIP and Dad gets DLA so it's not as bad as it sounds.

Unless you are excluded by capital you could be claiming Universal Credit. You would get the standard allowance plus the carer element which then have the Carer’s Allowance deducted. As a cater you would not have any job seeking requirements.

Claiming UC would also entitle you to future Cost of living payments.

Do your parents claim any other benefits?