Warm Home Discount Scheme 2022 - confusing info

ptanithmillard

poppy12345 said:

ptanithmillard said:

sheramber said:

Have you tried the online form? I t might tell you why you are not eligible.

Complete it as if you have not received a letter.

I have tried that but unfortunately, it does not give a definitive answer.

To quote from the page:

"You probably aren't eligible for the Warm Home Discount this year" and "Your property will need an Energy Performance Certificate (EPC) for us to confirm your eligibility. This certificate tells us how energy efficient your property is"

What it says exactly is ...

What you will need when you call

Your property will need an Energy Performance Certificate (EPC) for us to confirm your eligibility. This certificate tells us how energy efficient your property is. If your property's EPC has expired, we will still accept it.

(Wouldn't let me post the part that contains links)

I think I'm missing the point of your post. I truncated my post because none of the other information is really relevant. I am aware of how to get an EPC and that the cheapest quote I have for my area is £50. The age, size, and type of the property is already known and was also provided again on the online form, like sheramber suggested. Which then throws up this message. If the needed information is already provided then why not give a definitive answer? Why say we need an EPC, unless there is some other factor beyond size, age, and type that the EPC can provide? This is what is confusing. But like sheramber also said nobody on here is going to be able to say what information it is that they don't have. Even their own helpline couldn't. So I'm just shouting into the wind, as it were.

ptanithmillard

Spoonie_Turtle said:

If they don't have complete data then they must be missing missing one or more of those three: age, size, and/or type.  It's concerning that the person on the other end of the helpline didn't know what to do though!  Your housing provider (?!) are certainly not involved with setting the criteria.

[The reason Scotland didn't change to the new system is that the required property data are not held for about half the properties so it was not viable.]

If you know the age and size you could try to track down where your property falls in this table - although be aware that if you have size data from your EPC, flats are reduced by 14% and houses are increased by ... I can't remember, some % to take in the whole footprint.  So this is not a definitive method by any means, but more to give you an idea if you do know those characteristics. 

I'd also be inclined to try phoning the helpline again and seeing if you get anyone more knowledgeable.  If not, maybe contact your MP as I'm sure you won't be the only one.

Thank you for the tables. What I find interesting is that the date our house was built 1990/91 is not included in any of the data ranges listed. Maybe therein lies the problem. And now I wonder why that would be.

HillStreetBlues

poppy12345 said:

What it says exactly is ...

What you will need when you call

Your property will need an Energy Performance Certificate (EPC) for us to confirm your eligibility. This certificate tells us how energy efficient your property is. If your property's EPC has expired, we will still accept it.

Find an energy certificate to check if your property has an EPC.

Get a new energy certificate if your property does not have an EPC.

An EPC doesn't just tell them how energy efficient your property is, it tells them the age and the size of the property too and this is what they go by and not the energy efficiency.

It costs between £35 and £120 for an EPC  https://www.checkatrade.com/blog/cost-guides/epc-cost/

Another badly worded Government website.
It gives the impression that's the reason they need it, but how energy efficient the home is irrelevant.
Should  read  "This certificate gives us the information we need."

Spoonie_Turtle

ptanithmillard said:

poppy12345 said:

ptanithmillard said:

sheramber said:

Have you tried the online form? I t might tell you why you are not eligible.

Complete it as if you have not received a letter.

I have tried that but unfortunately, it does not give a definitive answer.

To quote from the page:

"You probably aren't eligible for the Warm Home Discount this year" and "Your property will need an Energy Performance Certificate (EPC) for us to confirm your eligibility. This certificate tells us how energy efficient your property is"

What it says exactly is ...

What you will need when you call

Your property will need an Energy Performance Certificate (EPC) for us to confirm your eligibility. This certificate tells us how energy efficient your property is. If your property's EPC has expired, we will still accept it.

(Wouldn't let me post the part that contains links)

I think I'm missing the point of your post. I truncated my post because none of the other information is really relevant. I am aware of how to get an EPC and that the cheapest quote I have for my area is £50. The age, size, and type of the property is already known and was also provided again on the online form, like sheramber suggested. Which then throws up this message. If the needed information is already provided then why not give a definitive answer? Why say we need an EPC, unless there is some other factor beyond size, age, and type that the EPC can provide? This is what is confusing. But like sheramber also said nobody on here is going to be able to say what information it is that they don't have. Even their own helpline couldn't. So I'm just shouting into the wind, as it were.

Maybe you know it but they evidently don't know something.  The online checker is just a guide, it can only tell you if you may or may not be eligible, unless you have a letter with the code that produces a definite yes result.  The checker itself won't update any details into the system - I don't think it even asks for any personal details so it couldn't possibly do anything like that.

OH!  No, actually I see what you mean - how odd that the checker couldn't say even maybe/possibly yes or no.  Very weird.  Maybe it's slap-bang on a border between characteristic bands or something, and they need the specific detail - build year perhaps, as that's the only detail that is put in as a range value rather than specific. 

When phoning up intending to supply the missing details (if the helpline actually worked, hypothetically) you'd need proof that your property's characteristics are what you say they are - I guess that's where an EPC comes in.  By the way I'm fairly certain it's your landlord's responsibility to have one, to know it's an E rating or above to be legal to rent out; you're simply a tenant so you shouldn't have to be paying for one for a property that isn't even yours.

I really understand your frustration though, the helpline is the only port of call and it's a disgrace that the person who took your call didn't know how to help you.  [Nothing against that staff member personally, I'm sure it's lack of training as is usually the case with DWP.]

Edit: just seen your most recent post, that's very interesting.  Do you mean it's not there on the checker?   Although chances are you wouldn't qualify with such a new house, unless it's a huge bungalow or detached house.

HillStreetBlues

Spoonie_Turtle said:

 By the way I'm fairly certain it's your landlord's responsibility to have one, to know it's an E rating or above to be legal to rent out; you're simply a tenant so you shouldn't have to be paying for one for a property that isn't even yours.

It will depend when a person became a tenant, as the rules wasn't applied retrospectively. 

Spoonie_Turtle

HillStreetBlues said:

Spoonie_Turtle said:

 By the way I'm fairly certain it's your landlord's responsibility to have one, to know it's an E rating or above to be legal to rent out; you're simply a tenant so you shouldn't have to be paying for one for a property that isn't even yours.

It will depend when a person became a tenant, as the rules wasn't applied retrospectively. 

Ah, good to know.
(Our HA have been quite proactive, we've been here since 1995 but have a before and after EPC when the heat pump was put in, have been out to survey a couple of times over the last few years, and just recently have phoned up asking to survey specifically the insulation.)

calcotti

I would imagine that a property built in the 1990s would be expected to be reasonably energy efficient.

ptanithmillard

Spoonie_Turtle said:

Edit: just seen your most recent post, that's very interesting.  Do you mean it's not there on the checker?   Although chances are you wouldn't qualify with such a new house, unless it's a huge bungalow or detached house.

The online checker lets you select between 1991 and 1995, which ours would fall into as the build was started in 1990 and finished in 1991. However, the table does not include those dates in the date ranges that I could find. 1990, 1991 and 1992 seem to be missing. Makes you wonder if there was something going on with houses built during those dates.

Spoonie_Turtle

ptanithmillard said:

Spoonie_Turtle said:

Edit: just seen your most recent post, that's very interesting.  Do you mean it's not there on the checker?   Although chances are you wouldn't qualify with such a new house, unless it's a huge bungalow or detached house.

The online checker lets you select between 1991 and 1995, which ours would fall into as the build was started in 1990 and finished in 1991. However, the table does not include those dates in the date ranges that I could find. 1990, 1991 and 1992 seem to be missing. Makes you wonder if there was something going on with houses built during those dates.

In the table the ranges are 1983-92 then 1993-99.  What type and size is it?  I'll try to find it for you.

ptanithmillard

HillStreetBlues said:

Spoonie_Turtle said:

 By the way I'm fairly certain it's your landlord's responsibility to have one, to know it's an E rating or above to be legal to rent out; you're simply a tenant so you shouldn't have to be paying for one for a property that isn't even yours.

It will depend when a person became a tenant, as the rules wasn't applied retrospectively. 

I did also contact our housing association today to ask about it. They confirmed that our property didn't have an EPC, that they only last 10 years, and that they don't normally issue another one until a tenant moves out and a new one moves in. The lady was very helpful though and asked me to leave it with her and she would see what she could do. So I am waiting for her to get back to me. However, our association isn't the speediest when it comes to getting things done and we only have until 28/02/22 to provide the extra data. So I'd probably need to get it done privately to make the deadline.