Average usage my **** said Jim Royle

BikingBud

Xbigman said:

 

One's perspective of what is essential or otherwise cannot really be scrutinised and assessing based upon your priorities is likely to miss the specifics of the user.

A dishwasher used twice a week that heats hot water only when required may be more efficient than heating a tank and drawing hot water to wash by hand. Would you consider that washing clothes in a machine was a luxury?

With regard to fridge or freezers, what is the true running cost? Not just the power burden but how much can be saved by buying bread, meat, fish or any other product when reduced and freezing it. Committing to buying bulk meat, half a lamb or pig from a butcher may be very cost effective if you can freeze it. If you buy at half price then you have to offset this saving against the power but is it wasteful? You may also grow fruit or veg and find that freezing your own produce provides a massive saving over buying commercially.

Yes an empty freezer is likely wasteful but your generalisation doesn't really assess the benefits of the devices.

On a forum like this you have to talk in general. There will always be people who really do need a car or really do need a freezer for various reasons. Am I supposed to put up 30,000,000 posts, one for each household in the country? The reality is that the average person has too much fridge capacity and too much freezer capacity. Its also a case that these items are generally badly managed. Getting rid of or reducing those capacities is an excellent way to reduce energy usage. 

As for cars.
I like a good anecdote so, story time with Darren
Last week I bumped into a former work colleague (I retired). He had a good moan about money in general. He has always been short of money and the increased cost of living is going to hurt. I suggested he could get rid of his car. I cycled to work with an ebike for 7 years but also with a regular old clunker bike for 5 months. I was overweight and not very fit, so I know its possible to do it. Its only 4.6 miles. I started to lay out the benefits but stopped when I saw the complete look of horror on his face. 
"You mean my wife would have a car and I wouldn't?" 
I guess some things are essential for non practical reasons too.


Darren

So continue with generalisations and anecdotes and you will solve the world?

How do you know that people have too much fridge or freezer capacity? How big is acceptable? How many in the house? How regularly do they shop? How far to the shop, bring in car usage?

Amongst the many behaviours that I may consider wasteful there are equally compelling arguments for the necessity.  

As a money saving site we can and should advise that there are holistic ways to optimise all expenditure (total household budget) including assessing and understanding power usage but who are we to say that something is wrong when we have no ideas about the circumstance or benefits.

We shouldn't treat is as heresy that some have large or multiple freezers, or multiple cars.

As the OP was highlighting "average" is quite meaningless.

sienew

BikingBud said:

Xbigman said:

 

One's perspective of what is essential or otherwise cannot really be scrutinised and assessing based upon your priorities is likely to miss the specifics of the user.

A dishwasher used twice a week that heats hot water only when required may be more efficient than heating a tank and drawing hot water to wash by hand. Would you consider that washing clothes in a machine was a luxury?

With regard to fridge or freezers, what is the true running cost? Not just the power burden but how much can be saved by buying bread, meat, fish or any other product when reduced and freezing it. Committing to buying bulk meat, half a lamb or pig from a butcher may be very cost effective if you can freeze it. If you buy at half price then you have to offset this saving against the power but is it wasteful? You may also grow fruit or veg and find that freezing your own produce provides a massive saving over buying commercially.

Yes an empty freezer is likely wasteful but your generalisation doesn't really assess the benefits of the devices.

On a forum like this you have to talk in general. There will always be people who really do need a car or really do need a freezer for various reasons. Am I supposed to put up 30,000,000 posts, one for each household in the country? The reality is that the average person has too much fridge capacity and too much freezer capacity. Its also a case that these items are generally badly managed. Getting rid of or reducing those capacities is an excellent way to reduce energy usage. 

As for cars.
I like a good anecdote so, story time with Darren
Last week I bumped into a former work colleague (I retired). He had a good moan about money in general. He has always been short of money and the increased cost of living is going to hurt. I suggested he could get rid of his car. I cycled to work with an ebike for 7 years but also with a regular old clunker bike for 5 months. I was overweight and not very fit, so I know its possible to do it. Its only 4.6 miles. I started to lay out the benefits but stopped when I saw the complete look of horror on his face. 
"You mean my wife would have a car and I wouldn't?" 
I guess some things are essential for non practical reasons too.


Darren

How do you know that people have too much fridge or freezer capacity? How big is acceptable? How many in the house? How regularly do they shop? How far to the shop, bring in car usage?

I'm of the belief that for many people a good freezer - or even multiple freezers for a family - actually provide a good ROI. Yes, you are paying for the energy to keep the freezer running but it allows you to buy things when they are on offer, reduces the need to travel to the supermarket, allows people to freeze short dated products, batch cook and buy cheaper frozen products. If you are a smart shopper and put a bit of work in (inc batch cooking) you can save a significant amount of money per year by having a freezer.

There is waste but I don't think this is it. Two of the things that annoy me most is people standing chatting at the front door with it open while the heating is on and TV's being on when nobody is even in the room. This type of thing is waste that people can't defend, having a freezer isn't.

Chrysalis

Yeah I would consider 3588 closer to average than 2900 for electric.

The bigger figure is 9.8 kWh a day.  There is loads on here who report higher usage then that, Ofgem average actually seems a bit low for electric at only 7.9 a day.

Do Ofgem reformulate it ever year or just rehash old average usage?

casjen

Xbigman said:

 

One's perspective of what is essential or otherwise cannot really be scrutinised and assessing based upon your priorities is likely to miss the specifics of the user.

A dishwasher used twice a week that heats hot water only when required may be more efficient than heating a tank and drawing hot water to wash by hand. Would you consider that washing clothes in a machine was a luxury?

With regard to fridge or freezers, what is the true running cost? Not just the power burden but how much can be saved by buying bread, meat, fish or any other product when reduced and freezing it. Committing to buying bulk meat, half a lamb or pig from a butcher may be very cost effective if you can freeze it. If you buy at half price then you have to offset this saving against the power but is it wasteful? You may also grow fruit or veg and find that freezing your own produce provides a massive saving over buying commercially.

Yes an empty freezer is likely wasteful but your generalisation doesn't really assess the benefits of the devices.

On a forum like this you have to talk in general. There will always be people who really do need a car or really do need a freezer for various reasons. Am I supposed to put up 30,000,000 posts, one for each household in the country? The reality is that the average person has too much fridge capacity and too much freezer capacity. Its also a case that these items are generally badly managed. Getting rid of or reducing those capacities is an excellent way to reduce energy usage. 

As for cars.
I like a good anecdote so, story time with Darren
Last week I bumped into a former work colleague (I retired). He had a good moan about money in general. He has always been short of money and the increased cost of living is going to hurt. I suggested he could get rid of his car. I cycled to work with an ebike for 7 years but also with a regular old clunker bike for 5 months. I was overweight and not very fit, so I know its possible to do it. Its only 4.6 miles. I started to lay out the benefits but stopped when I saw the complete look of horror on his face. 
"You mean my wife would have a car and I wouldn't?" 
I guess some things are essential for non practical reasons too.


Darren

BIB... Your reality.. so you cant say that.  I know of know one who hasn't got full ones..

[Deleted User]

Chrysalis said:

Yeah I would consider 3588 closer to average than 2900 for electric.

The bigger figure is 9.8 kWh a day.  There is loads on here who report higher usage then that, Ofgem average actually seems a bit low for electric at only 7.9 a day.

Do Ofgem reformulate it ever year or just rehash old average usage?

Was redone in 2017, then 2020, started the process last year but decided the covid effect made the numbers meaningless so delayed the most recent update.

Mstty

Chrysalis said:

Yeah I would consider 3588 closer to average than 2900 for electric.

The bigger figure is 9.8 kWh a day.  There is loads on here who report higher usage then that, Ofgem average actually seems a bit low for electric at only 7.9 a day.

Do Ofgem reformulate it ever year or just rehash old average usage?

I thought so too, more realistic but the implications of changing the average and the resulting higher looking price caps. Politically and organisationally wrong at this time and as we know the masses won't understand it as they don't talk in kWh.

As someone has said halted during covid and I would suggest energy usage has increased domestically with people working from home.