Energy rationing

[Deleted User]

MouldyOldDough said:

SuboJvR said:

TheAble said:

Deleted_User said:

northernstar007 said:

[Deleted User] said:

Not really.  You could set something up inside your own house to do it, but your smart meter can't control how much power you take - it can't turn things on and off for you.

not turn things on and off, just a simple theres 1kw of electric thats all your getting do what you want with it

But that's not how electricity works.  If you are using you 1kW and you turn something else on, what would you expect to happen?

There are systems that can do this sort of thing - like EV chargers that control themselves to not overload your house wires - but smart meters can't do it.  The EV system just turns down the charger when it notices other things are using power.

1 kwhr was what I think was meant. 

Can't see Sunak winning but this would make life difficult for those of us who work from home a few days a week. Yes we could go into the office but that's more cost and hassle.

South Africa has had blackouts (load shedding) for years.  It’s all planned and scheduled per zone, with the zone losing their electricity for say a 2 hour block.  And the timing of the block moves so it’s not the same area without power between 9-11am every day for example, it gets shared out.  It is disruptive, but it means people just do other things in that time before going back to work or whatever they were doing, and then working a bit later.

I am wondering how services like medical would be protected.  You don’t want MRI scanners losing their cooling for any length of time.  Linear accelerators are too powerful to really run off generators.  These services are often not in the same place as critical care services - people on ventilators and having emergency surgeries..

What about home medical gear ?

It's considered highly likely that if you were told the time of any 3 hour blackout beforehand, you could plan around it and it is not a problem.

It's a less difficult scenario to deal with than just a normal power cut - and I'm guessing you already know how to deal with that.

Anything that requires guaranteed 24/7 power should already have its own backup.

ariarnia

i watch a youtuber in south africa and he recently posted that he'd just got his electrics back after an unplanned three days blackout due to shortages.

blackouts seems like a common thing as he and most others seem to rely on generators but it's normally a few hours. though even then he's been saying fuel has been getting harder and harder to get unless you have contacts or huge amounts of money (the hotels and the like are doing okay). 

his videos aren't really about energy but it's interesting seeing how he copes and cooks in that kind of environment. especially given i think almost everything they eat has to be cooked because of the lack of freezing/refrigeration and shopping loose food from open markets. 

https://youtu.be/KkbLtOTRChY 

matelodave

Deleted_User said:

MouldyOldDough said:

SuboJvR said:

TheAble said:

Deleted_User said:

northernstar007 said:

Deleted_User said:

Not really.  You could set something up inside your own house to do it, but your smart meter can't control how much power you take - it can't turn things on and off for you.

not turn things on and off, just a simple theres 1kw of electric thats all your getting do what you want with it

But that's not how electricity works.  If you are using you 1kW and you turn something else on, what would you expect to happen?

There are systems that can do this sort of thing - like EV chargers that control themselves to not overload your house wires - but smart meters can't do it.  The EV system just turns down the charger when it notices other things are using power.

1 kwhr was what I think was meant. 

Can't see Sunak winning but this would make life difficult for those of us who work from home a few days a week. Yes we could go into the office but that's more cost and hassle.

South Africa has had blackouts (load shedding) for years.  It’s all planned and scheduled per zone, with the zone losing their electricity for say a 2 hour block.  And the timing of the block moves so it’s not the same area without power between 9-11am every day for example, it gets shared out.  It is disruptive, but it means people just do other things in that time before going back to work or whatever they were doing, and then working a bit later.

I am wondering how services like medical would be protected.  You don’t want MRI scanners losing their cooling for any length of time.  Linear accelerators are too powerful to really run off generators.  These services are often not in the same place as critical care services - people on ventilators and having emergency surgeries..

What about home medical gear ?

It's considered highly likely that if you were told the time of any 3 hour blackout beforehand, you could plan around it and it is not a problem.

It's a less difficult scenario to deal with than just a normal power cut - and I'm guessing you already know how to deal with that.

Anything that requires guaranteed 24/7 power should already have its own backup.

a very sensible answer.

My Bro has CPAP machine and relies on an Oxygen Generator and he can cope during unplanned power cuts by using an oxygen cylinder or a portable oxygen generator which has a back-up time of four hours together with a spare battery giving him eight hours and he can run it from the car if necessary.

His attitude is to be prepared rather than waiting and whinging if summat happens. He's probably got his stash of beer in already just in case of shortages.

He is also on the priority services register which should ensure that he would get notification of any scheduled outages.

Earlier on this year there were major storms which left people totally bereft of power for more than a week and people survived so I'm sure that scheduled outages of a defined duration wouldn't be all that difficult to manage ( we did in 1973) and anyone on the PSR would no doubt be able to get a bit more help if needed.

We are also on the PSR just because we are in our 70's and we get notified of scheduled outages but there's not much they can do if a tree falls across a power line.

We've lost power for up to 12 hours when power lines have come down but we've managed - you can make a sandwich rather than cooking a meal and there's nothing wrong with drinking water if you cant make a brew and, as I said earlier, either go to bed early or wrap up in a blanket - it's not the end of the world to lose power for a few hours.

ispookie666

QrizB said:

wrf12345 said:

Some third world countries have a choice of meters, the lower ampage ones have cheaper rates and lower s/cs, and are much cheaper to run as long as you have no serious electrical appliances - it would blow if you ran an electric shower, for instance.

@[Deleted User] has previously mentioned French tariffs that work like this- the more power you want to be able to pull from the grid, the more you pay for your connection. I wouldn't describe France as third-world.

See for example https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/79402058/#Comment_79402058

UK power networks offers this.
According to them you can request lower rating supply to your house and this will get reflected on to to the supply charges which you pay on your leccy bill. 
Not sure how much lower this will be

pensionpawn

I remember (as a very young boy) the power cuts of the mid '70's, going to bed by candlelight. Where I live we've experienced only two powercuts of a significant length (hours) in 26 years. The kids were young so we made a 'fun event' of it playing board games by candlelight. However in 2022 the world is far more dependent on electricity than it was 50 years earlier and some members of society may find it difficult to get by without their electronic gadgets, especially if rationing lasts. To that effect I ordered a Tesla Powerwall back in February to be installed by 1st Oct to store the excess from my solar panels and protect us against power cuts. Needless to say I was gutted when I was told in July that it will not be available until next April, at the earliest. Panels and a battery in each house folks is the answer and I just cannot fathom why planning laws have not been changed to mandate this. This approach starts people on the road to energy independence. However, back to the energy rationing and a question that relates to micro PV generators like me. How do you take down a geographic area without also knocking out all the micro generators in the same area? Of course, if the power cuts are after dark it doesn't matter, however if they are at lunchtime the outage could also cause a drop in electrical production. Depends how it is implemented....

[Deleted User]

As a micro-generator, you don't count as part of electricity production.

It's also very likely that your system is configured to shut down at the inverter if it detect that there is no external grid.

maj1987

I’ve not read the who thread but even last winter our company wasn’t allowed to use its mill(cement production) between the hours of 4-8pm if it did a fine would be issued, I’m sure it’s going to be the same this year but if they will ration it I think it will be the commercial side not domestic.

QrizB

pensionpawn said:

I ordered a Tesla Powerwall back in February to be installed by 1st Oct to store the excess from my solar panels and protect us against power cuts. Needless to say I was gutted when I was told in July that it will not be available until next April, at the earliest.

That sounds specifically like a Powerwall supply problem. Other makes of home battery storage are available.

Panels and a battery in each house folks is the answer and I just cannot fathom why planning laws have not been changed to mandate this.

The Coalition's planned changes to the Building Regs that would have required all new housing to be zero-carbon were cancelled by the Cameron government in 2015, to the acclaim of the housebuilders and most of the popular press.

How do you take down a geographic area without also knocking out all the micro generators in the same area? 

You don't, the embedded generation gets cut off too.

If your system is configured for islanding, you can keep power but this isn't a standard feature of domestic microgeneration and requires additional kit.

pensionpawn

QrizB said:

pensionpawn said:

I ordered a Tesla Powerwall back in February to be installed by 1st Oct to store the excess from my solar panels and protect us against power cuts. Needless to say I was gutted when I was told in July that it will not be available until next April, at the earliest.

That sounds specifically like a Powerwall supply problem. Other makes of home battery storage are available.

Panels and a battery in each house folks is the answer and I just cannot fathom why planning laws have not been changed to mandate this.

The Coalition's planned changes to the Building Regs that would have required all new housing to be zero-carbon were cancelled by the Cameron government in 2015, to the acclaim of the housebuilders and most of the popular press.

How do you take down a geographic area without also knocking out all the micro generators in the same area? 

You don't, the embedded generation gets cut off too.

If your system is configured for islanding, you can keep power but this isn't a standard feature of domestic microgeneration and requires additional kit.

Yes, I've looked at some others however I've stuck with Tesla's Powerwall for its size and island mode that you mention in your last point. I have a 7.1 kW array split due east - west and 13.5 kWhrs would have been handy for this winter's power rationing. If embedded generation is disconnected too that's quite counter productive!

[Deleted User]

pensionpawn said:

QrizB said:

pensionpawn said:

I ordered a Tesla Powerwall back in February to be installed by 1st Oct to store the excess from my solar panels and protect us against power cuts. Needless to say I was gutted when I was told in July that it will not be available until next April, at the earliest.

That sounds specifically like a Powerwall supply problem. Other makes of home battery storage are available.

Panels and a battery in each house folks is the answer and I just cannot fathom why planning laws have not been changed to mandate this.

The Coalition's planned changes to the Building Regs that would have required all new housing to be zero-carbon were cancelled by the Cameron government in 2015, to the acclaim of the housebuilders and most of the popular press.

How do you take down a geographic area without also knocking out all the micro generators in the same area? 

You don't, the embedded generation gets cut off too.

If your system is configured for islanding, you can keep power but this isn't a standard feature of domestic microgeneration and requires additional kit.

 If embedded generation is disconnected too that's quite counter productive!

It's partially for safety - if the power is turned off to the grid in your area, it needs to be kept dead to protect the people who might be coming to work on the equipment.

It's also for quality and control - your little PV system can't control voltage, frequency and suchlike for everyone in your area.  It wouldn't be much use if it stayed connected and then next door put the kettle on and blacked-out your house.  Or the other way around - if you turned something off, the voltage spiked, and then their television exploded. 

Most people didn't get islanding-capable equipment because it cost a lot more to install.

While an individual occupant is primarily concerned with their own equipment and their own usage, the network companies and the regulations must priorities the system as a whole over individual users.