Energy rationing

TheAble

[Deleted User] said:

TheAble said:

[Deleted User] said:

northernstar007 said:

Deleted_User said:

Not really.  You could set something up inside your own house to do it, but your smart meter can't control how much power you take - it can't turn things on and off for you.

not turn things on and off, just a simple theres 1kw of electric thats all your getting do what you want with it

But that's not how electricity works.  If you are using you 1kW and you turn something else on, what would you expect to happen?

There are systems that can do this sort of thing - like EV chargers that control themselves to not overload your house wires - but smart meters can't do it.  The EV system just turns down the charger when it notices other things are using power.

1 kwhr was what I think was meant. 

If you did, then that would just be the same as having a prepayment meter with only 1kWh credit on it.  I don't think normal smart meters have that function either - obviously smart prepayment meters do.

Perhaps not, though potentially not that hard to make them cut out once 1kwh is used up between some prescribed hours.

 After all they can already switch a smart meter to prepayment mode remotely.

[Deleted User]

SuboJvR said:

TheAble said:

[Deleted User] said:

northernstar007 said:

[Deleted User] said:

Not really.  You could set something up inside your own house to do it, but your smart meter can't control how much power you take - it can't turn things on and off for you.

not turn things on and off, just a simple theres 1kw of electric thats all your getting do what you want with it

But that's not how electricity works.  If you are using you 1kW and you turn something else on, what would you expect to happen?

There are systems that can do this sort of thing - like EV chargers that control themselves to not overload your house wires - but smart meters can't do it.  The EV system just turns down the charger when it notices other things are using power.

1 kwhr was what I think was meant. 

Can't see Sunak winning but this would make life difficult for those of us who work from home a few days a week. Yes we could go into the office but that's more cost and hassle.

South Africa has had blackouts (load shedding) for years.  It’s all planned and scheduled per zone, with the zone losing their electricity for say a 2 hour block.  And the timing of the block moves so it’s not the same area without power between 9-11am every day for example, it gets shared out.  It is disruptive, but it means people just do other things in that time before going back to work or whatever they were doing, and then working a bit later.

I am wondering how services like medical would be protected.  You don’t want MRI scanners losing their cooling for any length of time.  Linear accelerators are too powerful to really run off generators.  These services are often not in the same place as critical care services - people on ventilators and having emergency surgeries..

The UK security plan for rolling blackouts specifies how things like that should be done - it's known as "Protected Sites" - and one of the categories is medical facilities.

To be a protected site, they have to agree to reduce as much as possible during their scheduled blackout time but don't actually get disconnected.

Spoonie_Turtle

SuboJvR said:

TheAble said:

[Deleted User] said:

northernstar007 said:

[Deleted User] said:

Not really.  You could set something up inside your own house to do it, but your smart meter can't control how much power you take - it can't turn things on and off for you.

not turn things on and off, just a simple theres 1kw of electric thats all your getting do what you want with it

But that's not how electricity works.  If you are using you 1kW and you turn something else on, what would you expect to happen?

There are systems that can do this sort of thing - like EV chargers that control themselves to not overload your house wires - but smart meters can't do it.  The EV system just turns down the charger when it notices other things are using power.

1 kwhr was what I think was meant. 

Can't see Sunak winning but this would make life difficult for those of us who work from home a few days a week. Yes we could go into the office but that's more cost and hassle.

South Africa has had blackouts (load shedding) for years.  It’s all planned and scheduled per zone, with the zone losing their electricity for say a 2 hour block.  And the timing of the block moves so it’s not the same area without power between 9-11am every day for example, it gets shared out.  It is disruptive, but it means people just do other things in that time before going back to work or whatever they were doing, and then working a bit later.

I am wondering how services like medical would be protected.  You don’t want MRI scanners losing their cooling for any length of time.  Linear accelerators are too powerful to really run off generators.  These services are often not in the same place as critical care services - people on ventilators and having emergency surgeries..

I haven't read the ESEC document recently (first read it a few months ago when it was posted on a thread here) but IIRC there are exemptions e.g. for medical and other critical services.

It also has the timetables for disconnections if needed, 3-hr blocks.

matelodave

Does no one remember the three-day week, when places had to close down, factories either had to stop working unless they'd made alternative arrangements.  Areas were shut down for periods of 3 hours if I remember rightly.

The world didn't actually stop rotating, we all got by, whether it was by going to bed a bit earlier, wrapping up in blankets, going shopping with a torch and having some candles handy. It was nowhere as bad as people make out, and it probably wont be as bad the stirrers would like to make you all believe.

I cant see them shutting down individuals who have a smart meter, they'll just do like they did before, scheduled shut down in an area.

Instead of whinging get a bit prepared, buy a torch and some candles, batteries for your radio and then be disappointed when the portends of doom don't materialise.

For those with short memories or who are too young to remember - this is what it was all about - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-Day_Week#:~:text=The Three-Day Week was one of several measures,industrial action by coal miners and railway workers.

Robin9

facade said:

Now you've all fitted smart meters with remote disconnection they can cut off or leave on any individual household, so they could easily have a priority list.

One day perhaps but not as things stand - you can in theory switch off a Smart house in a street but you can't do the reverse and keep one house on and switch the others off.

When I worked for one of the supply companies we marked our plans for the dialysis patients so we could give them advance warning for planned works but for failures and rota load shedding (other than publishing plans) it was simply a case of shedding large chunks of load

ispookie666

Rolling black outs seems to be the easiest option.
On another note, just learned that I live close to a small CCGT (3MW) and then there is the huge solar farm and wind farm all within 2 miles.  
I wish Kerosene generators were available, at least I could run them off the heating oil.  

QrizB

wrf12345 said:

Some third world countries have a choice of meters, the lower ampage ones have cheaper rates and lower s/cs, and are much cheaper to run as long as you have no serious electrical appliances - it would blow if you ran an electric shower, for instance.

@[Deleted User] has previously mentioned French tariffs that work like this- the more power you want to be able to pull from the grid, the more you pay for your connection. I wouldn't describe France as third-world.

See for example https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/79402058/#Comment_79402058

macman

GingerTim said:

TheAble said:

Deleted_User said:

northernstar007 said:

Deleted_User said:

Not really.  You could set something up inside your own house to do it, but your smart meter can't control how much power you take - it can't turn things on and off for you.

not turn things on and off, just a simple theres 1kw of electric thats all your getting do what you want with it

But that's not how electricity works.  If you are using you 1kW and you turn something else on, what would you expect to happen?

There are systems that can do this sort of thing - like EV chargers that control themselves to not overload your house wires - but smart meters can't do it.  The EV system just turns down the charger when it notices other things are using power.

1 kwhr was what I think was meant. 

Can't see Sunak winning but this would make life difficult for those of us who work from home a few days a week. Yes we could go into the office but that's more cost and hassle.

It won't make a difference who wins, if rationing is ever required (and let's hope not) it will be required. Unless of course Truss's secret plan involves her bending the laws of physics.

For a politician who's regularly bent the laws of credibility, that would seem perfectly possible.

MouldyOldDough

SuboJvR said:

TheAble said:

[Deleted User] said:

northernstar007 said:

[Deleted User] said:

Not really.  You could set something up inside your own house to do it, but your smart meter can't control how much power you take - it can't turn things on and off for you.

not turn things on and off, just a simple theres 1kw of electric thats all your getting do what you want with it

But that's not how electricity works.  If you are using you 1kW and you turn something else on, what would you expect to happen?

There are systems that can do this sort of thing - like EV chargers that control themselves to not overload your house wires - but smart meters can't do it.  The EV system just turns down the charger when it notices other things are using power.

1 kwhr was what I think was meant. 

Can't see Sunak winning but this would make life difficult for those of us who work from home a few days a week. Yes we could go into the office but that's more cost and hassle.

South Africa has had blackouts (load shedding) for years.  It’s all planned and scheduled per zone, with the zone losing their electricity for say a 2 hour block.  And the timing of the block moves so it’s not the same area without power between 9-11am every day for example, it gets shared out.  It is disruptive, but it means people just do other things in that time before going back to work or whatever they were doing, and then working a bit later.

I am wondering how services like medical would be protected.  You don’t want MRI scanners losing their cooling for any length of time.  Linear accelerators are too powerful to really run off generators.  These services are often not in the same place as critical care services - people on ventilators and having emergency surgeries..

What about home medical gear ?

shinytop

GingerTim said:

TheAble said:

Deleted_User said:

northernstar007 said:

Deleted_User said:

Not really.  You could set something up inside your own house to do it, but your smart meter can't control how much power you take - it can't turn things on and off for you.

not turn things on and off, just a simple theres 1kw of electric thats all your getting do what you want with it

But that's not how electricity works.  If you are using you 1kW and you turn something else on, what would you expect to happen?

There are systems that can do this sort of thing - like EV chargers that control themselves to not overload your house wires - but smart meters can't do it.  The EV system just turns down the charger when it notices other things are using power.

1 kwhr was what I think was meant. 

Can't see Sunak winning but this would make life difficult for those of us who work from home a few days a week. Yes we could go into the office but that's more cost and hassle.

It won't make a difference who wins, if rationing is ever required (and let's hope not) it will be required. Unless of course Truss's secret plan involves her bending the laws of physics.

I don't agree. The higher and more universal the handouts, the more likely rationing is.  For example, Kier Starmer's plan (no price rises for anybody) would not do anything to reduce demand. Doing nothing (let the price cap rip) would do so significantly.