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New floor - credit card refund, company still want payment
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If we can reach agreement, would this go to court or ombudsman?
Regarding court the company has the opportunity to file through small claims in an attempt to recover anything they think is due, you'd obviously be able to submit a defence, a counter-claim if one was due and I think these things go to mediation before getting to a court.It's Karndean flooring which was poorly fitted - bad cuts, joins, wrong border trim used + not level.
This was all detailed in the independent report, so my dissatisfaction was validated in the report.
I checked with Karndean and they said boards shouldn't be reused after fitting, as it compromises integrity of product.
I'm quite happy for them to take it up + I'll have it redone. But I don't want to do that until I know if I have to pay. I can't afford to pay twice!
For the goods I'm assuming this isn't a glue down floor. Although Karndean may recommend not to reuse the boards whether the small claims process would agree is another matter really. In my view the manufacturer has a vested interest in saying this but then you could argue they know more than the flooring company who didn't fit the floor to a decent standard!
On reflection regarding the goods, I'm not sure if it's a case of them not conforming to the contract or the company causing you a loss by damaging them. @Jenni_D might have an opinion on this
Personally I'd send them a letter along the lines off:
Dear Flooring Company
With regards to your request for payment, as discussed and as detailed in the independent report commissioned (please find a copy of this attached), the service of laying the floor was not carried out with due care and skill, as a repeat performance has already been carried out, having sought advice, I am exercising my right to a price reduction. As the floor will be required to be lifted and refitted in full this price reduction shall be the full fee.
Your obligations and my entitlements are detailed in section 4 of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, linked to below for your reference:
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2015/15/part/1/chapter/4/enacted
With regards to the goods as they have been damaged due to poor fitting and the manufacturer advises against refitting once laid you may remove the floor and collect the goods at your expense and at suitable time for both of us.
Thank you in advance and I look forward to seeing an end to this matter,
Sincerely,
pedro789
If it was S75 the company may think they've got 50% safe in their pocket and walk away. If it was a chargeback they may be more resistant or some payment may be due to them.
You need to make sure you are as reasonable as possible in what you claim, I understand you aren't happy with the whole situation and are probably annoyed at all the headache but it's important to view this from an emotionless position. You need to be fair and pay for things you have received and sadly dismiss any claims to things you can't quantity (such as time, stress, etc). I only mention this as in the unlikely event they do go via small claims having acted fair and reasonable will put you in a stronger position
Just to add my replies are assuming you purchased the floor from the same company that fitted it.0 -
I believe this was a S75 claim ... I don't think the CC company would ask for a report if it was a chargeback (as they'd just swipe the funds from the company's merchant bank and then deal with it if it was challenged).
(IMHO / IANAL etc.) If the goods originally conformed to contract, but the seller's actions (fitting) have caused them to no longer conform (per the manufacturer's instructions), then they are no longer conforming. As the seller has had their opportunity to make the "goods" conform but they don't, then the OP is entitled to exercise their Final Right to Reject for a full refund. Since S75 has refunded the OP their initial payment, and they have yet to make any further payment, then the rejection should lead to no further payment being required.
This S75 route has actually netted the seller more than they would have been entitled to under the Consumer Rights Act (as long as the CC company doesn't pursue them for the S75 pay-out).Jenni x1 -
Jenni_D said:I believe this was a S75 claim ... I don't think the CC company would ask for a report if it was a chargeback (as they'd just swipe the funds from the company's merchant bank and then deal with it if it was challenged).
(IMHO / IANAL etc.) If the goods originally conformed to contract, but the seller's actions (fitting) have caused them to no longer conform (per the manufacturer's instructions), then they are no longer conforming. As the seller has had their opportunity to make the "goods" conform but they don't, then the OP is entitled to exercise their Final Right to Reject for a full refund. Since S75 has refunded the OP their initial payment, and they have yet to make any further payment, then the rejection should lead to no further payment being required.
This S75 route has actually netted the seller more than they would have been entitled to under the Consumer Rights Act (as long as the CC company doesn't pursue them for the S75 pay-out).
I'm going to check if it's S75 or chargeback with CC company + if they are going to pursue.
Would that make any difference to Right to Reject letter I send?
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pedro789 said:Jenni_D said:I believe this was a S75 claim ... I don't think the CC company would ask for a report if it was a chargeback (as they'd just swipe the funds from the company's merchant bank and then deal with it if it was challenged).
(IMHO / IANAL etc.) If the goods originally conformed to contract, but the seller's actions (fitting) have caused them to no longer conform (per the manufacturer's instructions), then they are no longer conforming. As the seller has had their opportunity to make the "goods" conform but they don't, then the OP is entitled to exercise their Final Right to Reject for a full refund. Since S75 has refunded the OP their initial payment, and they have yet to make any further payment, then the rejection should lead to no further payment being required.
This S75 route has actually netted the seller more than they would have been entitled to under the Consumer Rights Act (as long as the CC company doesn't pursue them for the S75 pay-out).
I'm going to check if it's S75 or chargeback with CC company + if they are going to pursue.
Would that make any difference to Right to Reject letter I send?
It doesn't affect your legal entitlement to reject or the grounds for a rejection. It could however affect what financial agreement you and the company might come to further down the line.0 -
If we can reach agreement, would this go to court or ombudsman?
Regarding court the company has the opportunity to file through small claims in an attempt to recover anything they think is due, you'd obviously be able to submit a defence, a counter-claim if one was due and I think these things go to mediation before getting to a court.It's Karndean flooring which was poorly fitted - bad cuts, joins, wrong border trim used + not level.
This was all detailed in the independent report, so my dissatisfaction was validated in the report.
I checked with Karndean and they said boards shouldn't be reused after fitting, as it compromises integrity of product.
I'm quite happy for them to take it up + I'll have it redone. But I don't want to do that until I know if I have to pay. I can't afford to pay twice!
For the goods I'm assuming this isn't a glue down floor. Although Karndean may recommend not to reuse the boards whether the small claims process would agree is another matter really. In my view the manufacturer has a vested interest in saying this but then you could argue they know more than the flooring company who didn't fit the floor to a decent standard!
OP, could you clarify whether it was glue down or click? If it was the click version I'd have to disagree with Karndean and I see no reason it can't be reused (assuming it isn't damaged otherwise) but it would be difficult to reuse the glue down version. Whether a judge would agree with this or not is up for debate.0 -
Gavin83 said:If we can reach agreement, would this go to court or ombudsman?
Regarding court the company has the opportunity to file through small claims in an attempt to recover anything they think is due, you'd obviously be able to submit a defence, a counter-claim if one was due and I think these things go to mediation before getting to a court.It's Karndean flooring which was poorly fitted - bad cuts, joins, wrong border trim used + not level.
This was all detailed in the independent report, so my dissatisfaction was validated in the report.
I checked with Karndean and they said boards shouldn't be reused after fitting, as it compromises integrity of product.
I'm quite happy for them to take it up + I'll have it redone. But I don't want to do that until I know if I have to pay. I can't afford to pay twice!
For the goods I'm assuming this isn't a glue down floor. Although Karndean may recommend not to reuse the boards whether the small claims process would agree is another matter really. In my view the manufacturer has a vested interest in saying this but then you could argue they know more than the flooring company who didn't fit the floor to a decent standard!
OP, could you clarify whether it was glue down or click? If it was the click version I'd have to disagree with Karndean and I see no reason it can't be reused (assuming it isn't damaged otherwise) but it would be difficult to reuse the glue down version. Whether a judge would agree with this or not is up for debate.0 -
Jenni_D said:I believe this was a S75 claim ... I don't think the CC company would ask for a report if it was a chargeback (as they'd just swipe the funds from the company's merchant bank and then deal with it if it was challenged).
(IMHO / IANAL etc.) If the goods originally conformed to contract, but the seller's actions (fitting) have caused them to no longer conform (per the manufacturer's instructions), then they are no longer conforming. As the seller has had their opportunity to make the "goods" conform but they don't, then the OP is entitled to exercise their Final Right to Reject for a full refund. Since S75 has refunded the OP their initial payment, and they have yet to make any further payment, then the rejection should lead to no further payment being required.
This S75 route has actually netted the seller more than they would have been entitled to under the Consumer Rights Act (as long as the CC company doesn't pursue them for the S75 pay-out).
Add in chargeback does not require any contact with retailer from bank.
So this has to be a S75. But would expect op to sign a fully & final settlement letter as well.Life in the slow lane0 -
pedro789 said:Gavin83 said:If we can reach agreement, would this go to court or ombudsman?
Regarding court the company has the opportunity to file through small claims in an attempt to recover anything they think is due, you'd obviously be able to submit a defence, a counter-claim if one was due and I think these things go to mediation before getting to a court.It's Karndean flooring which was poorly fitted - bad cuts, joins, wrong border trim used + not level.
This was all detailed in the independent report, so my dissatisfaction was validated in the report.
I checked with Karndean and they said boards shouldn't be reused after fitting, as it compromises integrity of product.
I'm quite happy for them to take it up + I'll have it redone. But I don't want to do that until I know if I have to pay. I can't afford to pay twice!
For the goods I'm assuming this isn't a glue down floor. Although Karndean may recommend not to reuse the boards whether the small claims process would agree is another matter really. In my view the manufacturer has a vested interest in saying this but then you could argue they know more than the flooring company who didn't fit the floor to a decent standard!
OP, could you clarify whether it was glue down or click? If it was the click version I'd have to disagree with Karndean and I see no reason it can't be reused (assuming it isn't damaged otherwise) but it would be difficult to reuse the glue down version. Whether a judge would agree with this or not is up for debate.In the game of chess you can never let your adversary see your pieces0 -
Although Karndean may recommend not to reuse the boards whether the small claims process would agree is another matter really. In my view the manufacturer has a vested interest in saying this but then you could argue they know more than the flooring company who didn't fit the floor to a decent standard!
The OP has can tell the small claims court that they paid the supplier for a product that has a lifetime warranty and this has been voided0 -
Jumblebumble said:Although Karndean may recommend not to reuse the boards whether the small claims process would agree is another matter really. In my view the manufacturer has a vested interest in saying this but then you could argue they know more than the flooring company who didn't fit the floor to a decent standard!
The OP has can tell the small claims court that they paid the supplier for a product that has a lifetime warranty and this has been voided
Perhaps a glued down floor can easily be lifted, I'm not a flooring expertIn the game of chess you can never let your adversary see your pieces0
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