might sound like a stupid question, but how do I know if an account is a trust?

hannaht

I opened Witan Jump savings plans for both my children many years ago, and a couple of years ago these were transferred (by them, not by me) to Hargreaves Landsdown.  HL have now written to me to ask if my HL Fund and Share Account  for my daughter is a trust?  I'm not sure, but shouldn't they know since they manage it, and how do I tell?  The accounts appear to be in my name with a designation... can anyone advise please?  Sorry to sound clueless, but I normally stick to bank savings accounts so I am! (clueless).  Many thanks for any advice

anniecave

The change of provider will have been because of a change of legal entity on their end, so that won't affect whether they are in a trust or not. If you set the original accounts up then if you don't know about any trusts then they won't be.

hannaht

Thanks very much for your help, much appreciated 

wmb194

hannaht said:

I opened Witan Jump savings plans for both my children many years ago, and a couple of years ago these were transferred (by them, not by me) to Hargreaves Landsdown.  HL have now written to me to ask if my HL Fund and Share Account  for my daughter is a trust?  I'm not sure, but shouldn't they know since they manage it, and how do I tell?  The accounts appear to be in my name with a designation... can anyone advise please?  Sorry to sound clueless, but I normally stick to bank savings accounts so I am! (clueless).  Many thanks for any advice

Do you have the original documentation? If it's set-up in your name with a named beneficiary it could be a trust of some type, probably bare. It definitely isn't e.g., a CTF?

dunstonh

'm not sure, but shouldn't they know since they manage it, and how do I tell?  

Unless you are paying them to manage it, they do not manage it.  Normal HL accounts are administration only and not managed.

The accounts appear to be in my name with a designation... can anyone advise please?

Designated accounts are not normally in trust.  However, you can pretty much name a trust what you like.  more typically, it will be along the lines of "will trust of xxxx" or "the xxxx trust"

wmb194

dunstonh said:

'm not sure, but shouldn't they know since they manage it, and how do I tell?  

Unless you are paying them to manage it, they do not manage it.  Normal HL accounts are administration only and not managed.

The accounts appear to be in my name with a designation... can anyone advise please?

Designated accounts are not normally in trust.  However, you can pretty much name a trust what you like.  more typically, it will be along the lines of "will trust of xxxx" or "the xxxx trust"

Perhaps there are exceptions but in my experience bare trusts are held in the adult's name with the name of the child designated.

HL's Junior Investment accounts are apparently held this way, "The HL Junior Investment Account is simply a HL Fund and Share Account, held in an adult's name but designated to the child. On receipt of your application we will send you an Election for Bare Trust form, which confirms your intention to create a Bare Trust."

https://www.hl.co.uk/help#fund-and-share-account/junior-investment-account/introduction/what-is-a-junior-investment-account

Obviously this came via Witan so perhaps this is where there's some confusion? Perhaps the lack of an, "election for bare trust form" completed for HL? Seems strange that HL wouldn't know but the OP could try to Google what the Witan account was and look for the original paperwork.

hannaht

Thanks for all the replies. I must have the paperwork somewhere because I never throw anything away so will have to have a good hunt. I’m still a bit perplexed that they’ve aske me tbh. I’ll stick to savings accounts in future 😎

xylophone

It is important to establish whether or not you are holding these accounts in bare trust for your children (ie  you have made an absolute and irrevocable gift  and they are the beneficial owners of the assets within the accounts) or whether you are the beneficial owner of the assets within the accounts and have merely designated them with your child's initials on the basis that you regard them as "set aside" for you to give/use for the children if you so choose.

If you as the parent set up these accounts in bare trust for your unmarried minor  children and provided the money to buy the assets within them, then while your children are the beneficial owners of the accounts (and have the absolute legal right to access and control at the age of 18), if any income over £100 per annum has arisen within the accounts, then it was taxable on you.

In addition, if these are trust accounts, they may now need to be registered with HMRC.

This may well be the reason that HL have contacted you.

https://www.moneymarketing.co.uk/opinion/changes-to-the-trust-registration-service-mean-trustees-and-their-advisers-have-to-act/

What exactly is indicated in the original documentation from Witan?

hannaht

Thanks everyone, I’ve found the original key fact sheet/ts &cs from Witan and there is no mention of a trust. Thanks for all your help

pedro769

Hi all. Newbie here so go easy but I am in exactly the same boat as hannat who started this thread. We still have the two accounts transferred to HL from Jump/Witan both in my wife's name with each son designated individually. I also spoke to HL and said 'you manage it surely you know if it is a trust or not' but they said I need to go back to Witan. My understanding was they were part of Henderson so I contacted them. They have pointed me in the direction of Witan now which is where I am. The reason for posting is that I would have thought if this Jump Savings plan was a Trust then wouldn't there have been a Trust Deed or an obligation to tell the boys when they turned 18?. I have the original documents and I cannot find anything like that? My sons are now 24 and 22 and we want the money to give them towards a deposit for a property when that time comes. We would rather not tell them yet. If we need to register them I do not have a problem but if not then I would rather not. I would be grateful for any comments.

wmb194

pedro769 said:

Hi all. Newbie here so go easy but I am in exactly the same boat as hannat who started this thread. We still have the two accounts transferred to HL from Jump/Witan both in my wife's name with each son designated individually. I also spoke to HL and said 'you manage it surely you know if it is a trust or not' but they said I need to go back to Witan. My understanding was they were part of Henderson so I contacted them. They have pointed me in the direction of Witan now which is where I am. The reason for posting is that I would have thought if this Jump Savings plan was a Trust then wouldn't there have been a Trust Deed or an obligation to tell the boys when they turned 18?. I have the original documents and I cannot find anything like that? My sons are now 24 and 22 and we want the money to give them towards a deposit for a property when that time comes. We would rather not tell them yet. If we need to register them I do not have a problem but if not then I would rather not. I would be grateful for any comments.

A quick Google suggests that there were two options for the Witan Jump account, bare trust for the child or kept in the adult's name and ownership.

Bare trusts are simple things and there won't be any special deeds. There are obligations with them but no one's going to automatically remind you of them, that's up to the trustee to comply with. If this is just a bare trust then, given they're over 18, you should give them the money or transfer the assets. You need to go over the documents you have with a fine toothcomb. Do they show your wife's name and then something like "trustee for [child's name]"?

From an article:

"They can designate the investment to the child – meaning that it remains in the original investor’s name. This makes the investor liable for tax on the investment returns, but allows some flexibility and control.

Investors can also open a bare trust for children, making the investment exempt from capital gains and income tax."

https://www.whatinvestment.co.uk/regular-saving-plans-for-children-1256073/