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might sound like a stupid question, but how do I know if an account is a trust?

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Comments

  • xylophone
    xylophone Posts: 45,994 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper

    Investors can also open a bare trust for children, making the investment exempt from capital gains and income tax."

    See https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/trusts-settlements-and-estates-manual/tsem4305 in respect of parental trusts.

  • xylophone
    xylophone Posts: 45,994 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper
    I have the original documents and I cannot find anything like that? 

    When the accounts were opened, what was the intention?

    Was it that your wife would simply set money aside on the basis that it  might possibly be used to gift to your sons at some point in the future if she so wished?

    She designated the accounts with their initials merely as a way of "naming a pot" rather than having the intention of making them an absolute and irrevocable gift?

  • Thanks for your responses. I have all the original terms and conditions and application forms etc but I still do not think it is clear. In the application form the 'your details' section was completed by my wife but just below this there is a box saying 'Please enter in the box below the full name of the child on whose behalf you are investing in Jump' 

    The statements have always arrived addressed to my wife and on the statements itself it has her name and then 'designation' of the boys initials.

    One thing I have noticed that may be relevant is in a Q & A section one of the questions asks what the Income tax implications are? The answer was that if it is a parent opening it then it will be treated as belonging to the parent for tax purposes and if it is someone else (an example is given of a grandparent) then the income generated would be offset against the childs own personal allowance.
  • xylophone
    xylophone Posts: 45,994 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper
    The answer was that if it is a parent opening it then it will be treated as belonging to the parent for tax purposes and if it is someone else (an example is given of a grandparent) then the income generated would be offset against the childs own personal allowance.

    This does not help you clarify whether or not this was a Trust account.

    See the HMRC link in my post above.

    A parent could open a Bare Trust Account for his minor unmarried child.

    Please enter in the box below the full name of the child on whose behalf you are investing in Jump' 

     It seems to me that this wording could well be interpreted as creating a Bare Trust.

  • Malthusian
    Malthusian Posts: 11,055 Forumite
    Tenth Anniversary 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    edited 19 October 2022 at 1:22PM
    Has any tax been payable on any income from the accounts, and if so, did you pay it? 
    (It is entirely possible that no tax was payable even if the accounts were in your name, if the investments produced dividend income under £2,000pa, but worth trying.)

    *edit* I take that back - you indicated the money came from you, so if the income exceeded £100pa it was taxable on you whether it was a bare trust or not. 
    The statements have always arrived addressed to my wife and on the statements itself it has her name and then 'designation' of the boys initials.
    Ask HL if they will take the designation off the account. If they say no, it's a bare trust account (irrevocable designation). If they say yes, it's her own money and the designation was just a label with no legal meaning (revocable designation).

    "They can designate the investment to the child – meaning that it remains in the original investor’s name. This makes the investor liable for tax on the investment returns, but allows some flexibility and control.

    Investors can also open a bare trust for children, making the investment exempt from capital gains and income tax."

    https://www.whatinvestment.co.uk/regular-saving-plans-for-children-1256073/

    This is wrong - bare trust investments are not exempt from capital gains tax and income tax. They are taxable in the name of the child - who may not have to pay tax due to the income / gains being within their allowances. 
    Whatinvestment is not a reliable source; they have a history of promoting minibonds and other Ponzi schemes, apart from not knowing how tax works. (I won't back that up with a link as it will boost their Google ranking, but you can do a search on their website for "buy to let cars" or minibonds.)
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