Reducing usage with a teen with additional needs.

becky004

theoretica said:

I have a few thoughts - you say that you are his appointee for benefits - can he afford to pay for all the energy (and food) he uses?  Subsidising him now may not be a kindness in the long run, as a change in future to having less spending money will probably be harder than never getting used to having more spending money. 

If he likes the physical sensation of being in water, then baths might indeed be a cheaper alternative to showers to give a considerable time of enjoyment - depending on how deep, maybe a bath overflow alarm?  Does he also like going swimming enough to put up with public pools?

To be honest am wary of taking too much off him, I became his appointee for PIP when he was 16, and UC when he went on it at 18 after all training options were exhausted. At 16 as I was in control, he informed his social worker that I was stealing all his money, and I had to provide evidence of where the money was going to prove I wasn't misappropriating his entitlement. He'd borrow money when he'd spent his, everything was written down so he knew exactly what he owed but every month he'd say he didn't owe it and I was stealing off him. As he matures he is improving, he is very destructive when he has a meltdown at one point we went through 15 TV's in an 18 month period, while that is improving it hasn't yet been eliminated but I do make him replace everything he damages now. 

My older daughter only left home the day we moved here she works full time and I only asked her for £100 a month, so I do feel guilty asking him for the £200 let alone any more, but we have come to an agreement today I will buy X amount of shopping a week if he goes through it in 4 days then he will get himself top up shops.

He won't go in a swimming pool unless on holiday which is every 2-3 years.

becky004

BUFF said:

Coffeekup said:

Your biggest cost from what you have said above will be the electric shower. Get some shower mixer taps fitted, so the hot water will come from the boiler...
https://www.screwfix.com/p/turn-dual-commercial-lever-bath-shower-mixer-bathroom-tap-chrome/25843

You second biggest energy sink will be the Xbox (PC or any other games console). Has he got an I pad? If not maybe he should get one as that uses insignificant amount of energy compared to a console and a tv (bigger tv more energy used). Then maybe have him off the xbox and on to I pad a few hours a day, slowly raising the amount if time he spends on the I pad.

We don't know (afaik) if the shower is a separate item or over the bath. If it is over the bath & there is decent pressure (combi boiler etc.) then I would instead suggest something like https://www.screwfix.com/p/rize-wall-mounted-thermostatic-bath-shower-mixer/324fv plus a pair of legs to fit to the bath. Safer, more efficient & hopefully, "set & forget".

As for shower v bath. An electric shower is typically ~6l/min so 20 minutes=120l which would be around the usage for a typical UK bath. So, water usage is similar but for the cost of heating that 120l of water electricity would be 3-4x the cost of heating it from a gas boiler.

If you don't have a Smart Meter+IHD (or indeed, even if you do) something like a Tapo P110 smart plug with energy monitoring (~£10) could give you & him an idea of the actual energy used by a device & therefore cost.

p.s. I too have significant autism traits. i did think that fryedslyce's post was blunt (to put it mildly) but I did also wonder if he might be autistic - it is a common trait.

The shower is over the bath, so will take a look at what you have suggested. I do have smart meters and the IHD lives on the kitchen table so he is aware of costs, but when I say it's 80p an hour to run an item for an hour, he's saying "but it's only 80p", what he isn't grasping is that if the item is running for 5 hours it's £4.00 multiply that but the days in the month and it's a very large expense.

Spoonie_Turtle

becky004 said:

BUFF said:

Coffeekup said:

Your biggest cost from what you have said above will be the electric shower. Get some shower mixer taps fitted, so the hot water will come from the boiler...
https://www.screwfix.com/p/turn-dual-commercial-lever-bath-shower-mixer-bathroom-tap-chrome/25843

You second biggest energy sink will be the Xbox (PC or any other games console). Has he got an I pad? If not maybe he should get one as that uses insignificant amount of energy compared to a console and a tv (bigger tv more energy used). Then maybe have him off the xbox and on to I pad a few hours a day, slowly raising the amount if time he spends on the I pad.

We don't know (afaik) if the shower is a separate item or over the bath. If it is over the bath & there is decent pressure (combi boiler etc.) then I would instead suggest something like https://www.screwfix.com/p/rize-wall-mounted-thermostatic-bath-shower-mixer/324fv plus a pair of legs to fit to the bath. Safer, more efficient & hopefully, "set & forget".

As for shower v bath. An electric shower is typically ~6l/min so 20 minutes=120l which would be around the usage for a typical UK bath. So, water usage is similar but for the cost of heating that 120l of water electricity would be 3-4x the cost of heating it from a gas boiler.

If you don't have a Smart Meter+IHD (or indeed, even if you do) something like a Tapo P110 smart plug with energy monitoring (~£10) could give you & him an idea of the actual energy used by a device & therefore cost.

p.s. I too have significant autism traits. i did think that fryedslyce's post was blunt (to put it mildly) but I did also wonder if he might be autistic - it is a common trait.

The shower is over the bath, so will take a look at what you have suggested. I do have smart meters and the IHD lives on the kitchen table so he is aware of costs, but when I say it's 80p an hour to run an item for an hour, he's saying "but it's only 80p", what he isn't grasping is that if the item is running for 5 hours it's £4.00 multiply that but the days in the month and it's a very large expense.

For bigger expenses (e.g the games console, shower), would keeping a running total of each help him to grasp the reality?  

Or if he needs it even more tangible, maybe something like he puts the money into a jar as he uses it (e.g after each shower, each gaming stint) - although understandable if you wouldn't want to go that route after his previous accusations of theft.

Auti

Maybe discuss with the social worker and son together about rent amount and get it in writing and signed there and then so that all are aware how the money is being used. It to include day to day money put in a spending box with a petty cash book that is written in when he takes money out so he knows he took it out. For objects broken I would not be in a hurry to replace as can send message I can act like this without long term negative outcome ( also are they all genuine meltdowns due to overwhelm or anger/not got my own way meltdowns (temper tantrum). How safe do you feel now daughter gone in putting, what he will see as restrictive, boundaries in place. What is your long term plans eg supported living accommodation for son or living with you until you die? I am autistic and do not mean to offend or be disrespectful.

wild666

I have an 11 in 1 Ninja air fryer, pressure cooker and steamer. It cost me £189, I don't use my oven now as I cook almost everything in the air fryer. I've just looked at the price and the same model is now £275, I suppose it's like everything else that's gone up, I'd wait for Black Friday deals to see if the prices fall.

wild666

becky004 said:

... on my own am using 4.5 - 6 a day (have been consciously trying to reduce), have no concerns with the gas it's the electric I want to try to stick within 6-7 upon his return.
 

Sadly this is not very likely, his Xbox use alone is going to take you above this target...

My Xbox series X running through a surround sound system and 65" TV uses around 1 kWh for every hour of use. The series S might use less power per hour but it could be why the daily usage is around the 13 kWh mark. If you tell him to turn appliances off at the wall socket when not in use rather than, I suspect, leave them in standby mode it could save a few kWh per day in energy charges. Whether he will do as you ask is a different question he might like that he just presses a button on the controller and the console springs into life rather than wait 10 seconds for it to connect to the internet once turned on.

Alnat1

I'm guessing his TV/Xbox and any other kit that goes with it, are all in his room. If they were all run off one extension with an energy monitor at the socket, you could show (and charge?) him for his personal electricity use, a bit like him having a separate meter for his bedroom.

It could be reset weekly after the amount had been written into his book.

BUFF

Alnat1 said:

I'm guessing his TV/Xbox and any other kit that goes with it, are all in his room. If they were all run off one extension with an energy monitor at the socket, you could show (and charge?) him for his personal electricity use, a bit like him having a separate meter for his bedroom.

You could also set a schedule so that everything was automatically switched off at say, 1.:00am & switched back on at say, 6 or 7am?
It would save a little bit.

YoungBlueEyes

becky004 said:

I suggested one of the kitchen timers that rings a bell after time is up, that's when he said he'll just take cold showers, which I know won't happen. He's obsessed with time, how many minutes till we go here, or how many minutes until x y or z is ready, but showering there's no happy medium.

As he's all about the minutes, would it be possible to make sure he only has say 5 minutes in the shower because the next thing is about to happen?  E.g. dinner will be on the table at 6pm so his showering time starts at 5.45pm. 5 minutes to shower and 10 to get dried/dressed/clean teeth/do hair.  Or if a morning showerer, we're leaving the house at 10am to go to that thing, so your 15 minutes starts at 9.45am?  And make sure dinner is on the table at6pm, or you do leave the house at 10am or whatever.  Would that work?

Or tell him that the boiler will be turned off 5 minutes after I hear the water running, so it'll be a cold shower after that, like you said you were fine with!

EssexHebridean

Alnat1 said:

I'm guessing his TV/Xbox and any other kit that goes with it, are all in his room. If they were all run off one extension with an energy monitor at the socket, you could show (and charge?) him for his personal electricity use, a bit like him having a separate meter for his bedroom.

It could be reset weekly after the amount had been written into his book.

This was going to be my suggestion too. Not so much the charging aspect, but more just the actual cost involved. Once you know the costs for a day, you could get him to work out how much that level of use continuing would cost for a week, month, year etc and then perhaps challenge him to try to bring that cost down a little each week - effectively get him to compete against himself if that might be something that sparks his imagination?