Cancelling a solar installation

InkZ

Hi,

having a bit of a time with it with some cowboys. Going to try a section 75 for misrepresentation but thinking this could be a backup plan.

I was never provided with cancellation rights for the service which was organised on the phone. This means that I have a 1 year cooling off period. Because they started work within the cooling off period can I cancel penalty free?  How does this work with installed items and for how long for?

im really annoyed because if this had been above board and I had known I could have, i probably would have cancelled.

sevenhills

Why did you change your mind? How far did they get with the work?
There is likely to be some cost to you, if work started. What company was it, why wasn't it "above board"?

Undervalued

InkZ said:

Hi,

having a bit of a time with it with some cowboys. Going to try a section 75 for misrepresentation but thinking this could be a backup plan.

I was never provided with cancellation rights for the service which was organised on the phone. This means that I have a 1 year cooling off period. Because they started work within the cooling off period can I cancel penalty free?  How does this work with installed items and for how long for?

im really annoyed because if this had been above board and I had known I could have, i probably would have cancelled.

No!

How far would you take that argument? Suppose the work had been completed within a month, do you really think you could cancel "penalty free" eleven months later and expect them to come and remove everything and give you all your money back?

If the work is not satisfactory obviously you have rights in that respect. Equally if they caused damaged to your property.

What exactly do you mean by "above board" and what is wrong with the installation?

Aylesbury_Duck

No one can provide an informed answer because more information is needed.

Manxman_in_exile

InkZ said:

... I was never provided with cancellation rights for the service which was organised on the phone. This means that I have a 1 year cooling off period. Because they started work within the cooling off period can I cancel penalty free?  How does this work with installed items and for how long for?...

Hmmm.

Why did they start installation before the end of the cancellation period?  Did they do it of their own volition, or did you ask them to start before it ended?  My understanding is that if you asked them to start early, you lose the right to cancel a service altogether, so there would be no cancellation period to extend.

If they started the work early without you asking them to do so, then there might be an extended cancellation period if they didn't provide to you in a durable form the infomation (about your right to cancel) as prescribed in the legislation.

There are two schools of thought: one is that the legislation appears to clearly say that if the required information is not provided, then the cancellation period is extended by twelve months.  The other is that Parliament could not possibly have intended to extend the cancellation period by a year just because certain information was not provided to the consumer.

Personally, I think that is what Parliament intended, and it was intended as a big stick with which to reprimand rogue traders who deliberately ignored the legislation and did not give consumers information about their statutory rights.  But I'm not a lawyer so I suppose my opinion is worth little.

The relevant law is in Part 3 here:  The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013 (legislation.gov.uk)

Read it yourself and see what you think...

If I were you I'd also try CAB.

[Edit:  when you say it was organised on the 'phone, I assume you mean all of the work/contract/purchase was negotiated and completed in such a way as to qualify as a distance sale?]

Edit2:  Of course, if they've already hacked big holes in your roof for the panels, you have something more serious than an academic legal problem...

Grumpy_chap

Manxman_in_exile said:

There are two schools of thought: one is that the legislation appears to clearly say that if the required information is not provided, then the cancellation period is extended by twelve months.  The other is that Parliament could not possibly have intended to extend the cancellation period by a year just because certain information was not provided to the consumer.

Personally, I think that is what Parliament intended, and it was intended as a big stick with which to reprimand rogue traders who deliberately ignored the legislation and did not give consumers information about their statutory rights.  But I'm not a lawyer so I suppose my opinion is worth little.

But I can't believe that Parliament intended that big stick to go so far as a contractor that is lack in the paperwork being able to do a job that has parts and install and then anytime within the year be asked to take it all out again.

There is quite a big difference between a distance sale that only means sending some mass-produced item that can be returned to stock and a distance sale that requires an item to be fitted with labour included.  I am actually surprised that a solar install could be concluded as a distance sale.

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

Undervalued said:

InkZ said:

Hi,

having a bit of a time with it with some cowboys. Going to try a section 75 for misrepresentation but thinking this could be a backup plan.

I was never provided with cancellation rights for the service which was organised on the phone. This means that I have a 1 year cooling off period. Because they started work within the cooling off period can I cancel penalty free?  How does this work with installed items and for how long for?

im really annoyed because if this had been above board and I had known I could have, i probably would have cancelled.

No!

How far would you take that argument? Suppose the work had been completed within a month, do you really think you could cancel "penalty free" eleven months later and expect them to come and remove everything and give you all your money back?

If the work is not satisfactory obviously you have rights in that respect. Equally if they caused damaged to your property.

What exactly do you mean by "above board" and what is wrong with the installation?

If the contract is off-premises or at a distance and the correct information isn't supplied the consumer can cancel the contract (during the appliable cancellation period) regardless of whether the service was began or completed. 

For off premises if the company began the service during the cancellation period they need to gain express consent from the consumer via durable means, for a distance contract the consent doesn't need to be durable.  

The OP would have a contract for goods and services and so would be able to cancel the goods aspect as well without a reduction for handling but I'm not sure who would face the costs of uninstalling the goods. 

If the trader complies with everything the consumer may still cancel services during the standard cancellation period but would have to pay for what was received up until the point of cancellation. Again where the trader complies with everything, if the service was completed within the cancellation period, once complete the right to cancel expires. 

Guidance here

https://www.businesscompanion.info/en/quick-guides/consumer-contracts/consumer-contracts-distance-sales#Informationrequirements

A consumer will not have to pay you for services supplied in the cancellation period if you have not provided them with information items 'l' and 'n' above. Nor will the consumer have to pay if they had not expressly requested that you start within the cancellation period. Therefore if you start to deliver a service on your own initiative during the cancellation period the consumer will not have to pay you if they decide to cancel.

Grumpy_chap

How does a solar install come about as a distance / off-premises contract?

I can understand that an estimate could be provided if information is shared about the size of the roof and the installer can make some assumptions about where an inverter can go, difficulty to cable from the roof to the fuse board, access needs etc.

From a telephone call, you could get to "based on that information, a 10-panel system would do xyz and the cost would be in the range of £A - would that be something that could work for you?"  The householder could then agree to the contractor visiting to firm things up.

Any competent contractor would then need to visit the property to do a proper measure, confirm whether it will be the original 10 panels, or actually the chimney location means only 8 panels, or the scaffold will be more complex, or cabling to the fuse board is not as simple etc.  Then a firm price can be given that allows the contract to be agreed.  It's no longer a distance contract..

born_again

Surely as above someone must have visited the property to check roof etc & measure up.

But why would anyone think that with a distance sale a company would have to wait 14 days before starting the work..

A bit like getting a new car & taking out car ins over the phone or internet & not being able to use car for 14 days. In case you change your mind... 🤷‍♂️🤣

Manxman_in_exile

Grumpy_chap said:

How does a solar install come about as a distance / off-premises contract?

I can understand that an estimate could be provided if information is shared about the size of the roof and the installer can make some assumptions about where an inverter can go, difficulty to cable from the roof to the fuse board, access needs etc.

From a telephone call, you could get to "based on that information, a 10-panel system would do xyz and the cost would be in the range of £A - would that be something that could work for you?"  The householder could then agree to the contractor visiting to firm things up.

Any competent contractor would then need to visit the property to do a proper measure, confirm whether it will be the original 10 panels, or actually the chimney location means only 8 panels, or the scaffold will be more complex, or cabling to the fuse board is not as simple etc.  Then a firm price can be given that allows the contract to be agreed.  It's no longer a distance contract..

We don't really have enough info from the OP to be able to say either way.  All we know is he says "it was organised on the 'phone".  I have no idea what that means, which is why I specifically asked him what he meant and how the contrcat was negotiated etc.  (See my first edit to my earlier post).

FWIW, I think you are probably right that it is what the legislation defines as an on-premises sale (ie neither a distance sale nor an off-premises sale) but it would be nice to know more to allow a bit more certainty...

InkZ

Quotes were done via phone / email and once quote was agreed someone came out to do a site survey.  I got a call from the sales person the next day after this to pay the deposit.  I believe this counts as a distance sale still, but it doesn't seem straight forward.

Scaffolding went up within a week and I provided no consent to start any works within the cancellation period (because I was never told I had one!).  Basically they've installed opposite aspects of my house on a single string with no optimisers so half my panels are always in shade which means I get naff all generation on the largest part of my array.  They installed a different system than what was quoted and you can add dodgy certifications and a cowboy install to the list.  I don't have holes in my roof but the panels will probably blow away in the first major storm we have.

I've got a load of stuff together for a section 75 but stumbled across the cancellation stuff and wondered if it could be a back up if section 75 gets rejected for whatever reason.

Everything I've read seems to suggest I can cancel up to a year without a reason and get a full refund but can't find any pratical detail or examples on stuff that's been installed and how it's returned etc.