Gov't support

mumf

I can see it from all angles to be fair. However, government support can’t keep increasing/ go on forever. I am far from wealthy,but I cut my cloth accordingly. I have X - amount to spend ,just like government. If government wants more,it taxes more. That means I have LESS X - amount to spend!  

Life isn’t a constant bed of roses unfortunately. 

KxMx

I'm not pretending to have the answers,  but the situation is running out of control now,  we've gone from a situation where the poorest can't afford the increases,  to where most households will struggle with the costs, even when making cutbacks elsewhere.

Small businesses are being particularly impacted.

TheBanker

There are arguments both ways but my bigger issue with the Standing Charge is the inclusion of the SOLR costs. Presumably in the good times, the companies which went bust made a healthy profit, which their shareholders have pocketed. The problem is a failure to regulate properly, having a market where suppliers could go bust taking customers' money with them and leaving everyone else to pick up the tab.

There should have been more controls around the capital and liquidity of these companies, just like there are with banks. Yes, it would have meant higher bills historically but we wouldn't be in quite so much of a mess today. 

[Deleted User]

KxMx said:

I'm not pretending to have the answers,  but the situation is running out of control now,  we've gone from a situation where the poorest can't afford the increases,  to where most households will struggle with the costs, even when making cutbacks elsewhere.

Small businesses are being particularly impacted.

Welcome to the past. This is exactly what the 70s and 80s were like. It was a terrible period for those whose income was just above the line for any State help. This snapshot shows what happened to mortgage interest rates:

’ Rates in 1971 were in the mid-7% range, and they moved up steadily until they were at 9.19% in 1974. They briefly dipped down into the mid- to high-8% range before climbing to 11.20% in 1979.’

The only good thing was that we did have a NHS that actually worked for patients.

MattMattMattUK

KxMx said:

I'm not pretending to have the answers,  but the situation is running out of control now,  we've gone from a situation where the poorest can't afford the increases,  to where most households will struggle with the costs, even when making cutbacks elsewhere.

Small businesses are being particularly impacted.

It might sound callous, but the economic consequences of more than £100 billion a year being sucked out of the economy by energy bills are actually going to be far worse than people being cold over the winter. The majority, perhaps the vast majority of households will be able to pay the increased costs, but they will do so by reducing spending elsewhere, which will likely deepen and extend the already predicted (and likely already in the start of) recession, that will further reduce employment and tax revenues, which will increase borrowing and reduce the ability of the state to help people. 

If you look at the amounts of money that are already in the process of, or are scheduled to be distributed there is no reason for people to freeze to death this winter, though there are plenty who will have a cold and uncomfortable winter. There is no easy way out of this situation, if there was it would have already been taken, a drop in living standards for most is certain, a reduction in indoor temperature for most is certain, however it is not the end of the world.

Spoonie_Turtle

Astria said:

sienew said:

VohnnyJegas said:

Sea_Shell said:

"They're not going to go back to reading books."

Well, that's a shame.   

Maybe people will reconnect with old fashioned pass times.

Borrow a draughts (or chess if they prefer a challenge!) set.  Play cards.  Jigsaw puzzles etc etc.

Not everything has to be electronic.

Draughts, and chess, are both incredibly hard games to play in total darkness when you're freezing to death.

Electric blankets and LED lights are both incredibly cheap to run. Nobody should be in the dark or freezing.

How much do electric blankets use actually? and are they as cheap as a hot water bottle if you have a combi boiler, or a tank full of hot water? I do remember placing 2 hot water bottles in my bed many years ago try and warm it up!

Many years?  I did that up until 2017 when we had central heating installed (heat pump - though we've always been all-electric so heating water has always been more expensive than gas).  I still put one hot water bottle in during winter, I just don't need two any more.

That's assuming people's hot water gets hot enough for a hot water bottle, which if they've turned it down to save energy, it may well not be and they have to heat it a bit in the kettle anyway.

xeny

pochase said:

I still fail to see any reason why a low user should not not pay for the services they get and instead want to be subsidised by high users?

Devil's advocate - a high user has by definition more scope for reducing demand than a low user, and the way out of these prices is to raise supply or lower demand. Therefore high users subsidising low users provides an extra financial incentive for the high user to try and reduce consumption?

There's talk of a multi stage tariff with the first few units being cheaper than the rest, presumably by the same kind of logic.

xeny

MattMattMattUK said:

It might sound callous, but the economic consequences of more than £100 billion a year being sucked out of the economy by energy bills are actually going to be far worse than people being cold over the winter. The majority, perhaps the vast majority of households will be able to pay the increased costs, but they will do so by reducing spending elsewhere, which will likely deepen and extend the already predicted (and likely already in the start of) recession, that will further reduce employment and tax revenues, which will increase borrowing and reduce the ability of the state to help people. 

I saw a quote that Germany is looking at spending 8.4% of GDP on gas this coming year. They used to pay <1%

schnegge_london

I think in the short term, we need more help, especially for vulnerable households.
It shouldn't be a decision between heating or eating for anyone. 

But also: lots of people are not aware about how much energy they even use. My mother in law heats the house up to 25 degrees in the winter, which I just don't understand. When she comes to us, first thing she tries is to put up the heating... 
People need to understand that energy is a precious resource and it's no longer cheap. 

In the long run, getting rid of the "Green Crap" is simply not an option. Why is the price for renewable energy related to the gas price? Wind is cheap and so is solar power. Why are there no massive investments in this? Same with insulation. 

Also why is the Government not more rallying for energy saving measures.. when I look at other countries, they are far far ahead, we just walk into this and keep our eyes shut.

Well, I suppose as long as it doesn't harm any major Tory voters, everything seems to be fine.

QrizB

Astria said:

How much do electric blankets use actually? and are they as cheap as a hot water bottle if you have a combi boiler, or a tank full of hot water? I do remember placing 2 hot water bottles in my bed many years ago try and warm it up!

Mine uses 40 watts. Running it for 24h would use one kWh.

Water for a hot water bottle will be cheaper.

Some calcs from last year here:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/78697804/#Comment_78697804