Gov't support

Xbigman

Every penny handed out as a freebee is a penny wasted. If we gave everyone £10,000 towards their energy bills the price would rise £10,000. Nobody would actually gain anything and the country is in more debt. 
Giving out money does not create more gas. Nationalising the energy industry will not create more gas. Artificial caps on prices will not create more gas. The only answer is massive reduction in usage. For domestic customers maybe by a third. Paying people to reduce usage is the only thing that makes sense. Everything else is BS.


Darren

pochase

MattMattMattUK said:

The_Green_Hornet said:

As the government based their cost of living support on the original Ofgem prediction of £2800 back in May should we expect a further £749 now that the actual figure is £3,549?

I know it a simplistic calculation but then politicians don't tend to do sophisticated.

No, expect nothing beyond the 5% VAT being removed.

I thought Rishi was VAT and Liss was green levies?

Spoonie_Turtle

Tigsteroonie said:

More support would be coming?!!!

Some of us have yet to receive the support that is already promised - £400 over the winter on our energy bills, I've heard nothing from EDF as to when that starts and how it will be applied; £150 for our son via DLA - sometime towards the end of next month; £650 for ourselves via Tax Credits - sometime next month for the first half, goodness alone knows when the second half will be paid. In the meantime, our cost of living has gone up now.

Tax Credits: £326 Low Income CoL payment due "between 2 and 7 September 2022 for most people", second part "from winter 2022"*  https://www.gov.uk/guidance/cost-of-living-payment#low-income-benefits-and-tax-credits

DLA: Disability CoL payment due 20th September  https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/news/2022/08/six-million-disabled-people-to-get-their-p150-cost-of-living-pay/

EBSS £400 https://www.edfenergy.com/for-home/energy-bills-support-scheme

*the stated reason for TC being later is to ensure there's no duplicate payments to people who claim TC along with another qualifying DWP benefit.

The_Green_Hornet

MattMattMattUK said:

The_Green_Hornet said:

As the government based their cost of living support on the original Ofgem prediction of £2800 back in May should we expect a further £749 now that the actual figure is £3,549?

I know it a simplistic calculation but then politicians don't tend to do sophisticated.

No, expect nothing beyond the 5% VAT being removed.

No, I expect more cash to be splashed.

sienew

The_Green_Hornet said:

MattMattMattUK said:

The_Green_Hornet said:

As the government based their cost of living support on the original Ofgem prediction of £2800 back in May should we expect a further £749 now that the actual figure is £3,549?

I know it a simplistic calculation but then politicians don't tend to do sophisticated.

No, expect nothing beyond the 5% VAT being removed.

No, I expect more cash to be splashed.

Earnings from VAT/green levies probably will be redistributed as cash payments. It'll be more of a win for the incoming PM if they hand out cash to everyone rather than cutting a tax, even though the figure may be the same.

Coffeekup

savers_united said:

It will be your coffee shops, cookie sellers, doughnuts stores the types of places that have done well during Covid when people wanted a bit of a lift, had a bit of spare cash and have been working from home. 

I have been guilty of it, spending £10 on 4 doughnuts at lunch time and there have been queues out the door, I just don't see that being case this winter. 

I agree however it won't be till February/March when people get their bill's they'll think what the F#©~ has happened here? 

There is a place near me that sells a donut's/ cake's for £3.20 along with coffees and milkshakes at bonkers prices. I sat outside a few months ago on a Saturday morning for an hour and watched countless range rovers, land rover's, Mercedes, BMW's pulling up one after another to buy drinks and cake's and get back in their car's to go back home and enjoy, it's a made culture where we do what others do because it's on a social media platform.

I wonder how they can afford it, but talking with other's so many people have credit racked up to numbers higher than the value of my house.

savers_united

Coffeekup said:

savers_united said:

It will be your coffee shops, cookie sellers, doughnuts stores the types of places that have done well during Covid when people wanted a bit of a lift, had a bit of spare cash and have been working from home. 

I have been guilty of it, spending £10 on 4 doughnuts at lunch time and there have been queues out the door, I just don't see that being case this winter. 

I agree however it won't be till February/March when people get their bill's they'll think what the F#©~ has happened here? 

There is a place near me that sells a donut's/ cake's for £3.20 along with coffees and milkshakes at bonkers prices. I sat outside a few months ago on a Saturday morning for an hour and watched countless range rovers, land rover's, Mercedes, BMW's pulling up one after another to buy drinks and cake's and get back in their car's to go back home and enjoy, it's a made culture where we do what others do because it's on a social media platform.

I wonder how they can afford it, but talking with other's so many people have credit racked up to numbers higher than the value of my house.

I did it to support a local business during what was a tough time with the lockdowns, but as you say for alot of people its all about social media and being seen at a certain place. 

That is why I am not in favour of Gov't support, I think people do need a wake up call, far too many these days are reckless. 
Its OK spending £5000 on an exotic holiday that you will worry about paying off over the next 2 years, so long as you have those all important snaps for your social media. 
Its a bit different having to find the same £5000 with nothing really to show for it, with energy bills almost unavoidable there are going to be alot of people not struggling to pay but just struggling to adjust to this period of having to change the way they live., and I don't think it's always a bad thing.

This is why hand outs and other support measures need to be limited to only those genuinely in need, maybe through disability, Illness and certain families with very young children and pensioners, but again those who have gone through life pi**ing money up the wall and giving a 2 finger salute to the future with no planning for pensions etc why should we be looking to support, I feel I have done the right thing in keeping good savings and paying into a pension and yes I will see a big increase in my bills, but I want to get through this and move on and not have years of ongoing costs due to support being handed out now, that will no doubt be shared amongst either all other energy users through higher bills or general taxation. 
Whatever the govt chose to do it must take into consideration the bill for future generations and whether it is value for money for other energy users / taxpayers. 

[Deleted User]

The ‘interim’ Chancellor is correct in his assertion that families with incomes well above the present limits for State help will need to be supported. People are going to be hit with high energy bills; high mortgage costs and high food prices. You have to have lived through a period of very high inflation to know how bad it could get for the many not just the few.

Sea_Shell

[Deleted User] said:

The ‘interim’ Chancellor is correct in his assertion that families with incomes well above the present limits for State help will need to be supported. People are going to be hit with high energy bills; high mortgage costs and high food prices. You have to have lived through a period of very high inflation to now how bad it could get for the many not just the few.

The tricky part (as always) is trying to help those that will end up in debt because of this, as it will take every penny (and more) of any surplus discretionary earnings or savings that they may have had beforehand,  alongside balancing (any?) help for those who can "afford" it without going into debt, but it still takes up most (but not all) of their savings/wages.

Any help to the "squeezed middle" will probably have to be assessed on some metric, somehow, as I don't thing the country can afford blanket help for everyone.    Where that level is....is anyone's guess, as people have very different needs v. income.

casjen

Coffeekup said:

savers_united said:

It will be your coffee shops, cookie sellers, doughnuts stores the types of places that have done well during Covid when people wanted a bit of a lift, had a bit of spare cash and have been working from home. 

I have been guilty of it, spending £10 on 4 doughnuts at lunch time and there have been queues out the door, I just don't see that being case this winter. 

I agree however it won't be till February/March when people get their bill's they'll think what the F#©~ has happened here? 

There is a place near me that sells a donut's/ cake's for £3.20 along with coffees and milkshakes at bonkers prices. I sat outside a few months ago on a Saturday morning for an hour and watched countless range rovers, land rover's, Mercedes, BMW's pulling up one after another to buy drinks and cake's and get back in their car's to go back home and enjoy, it's a made culture where we do what others do because it's on a social media platform.

I wonder how they can afford it, but talking with other's so many people have credit racked up to numbers higher than the value of my house.

The headline writers may be doing their best to give the impression were all doomed but for every person struggling there is another who isn't. Your line with all those cars arriving is pretty sad. We not all slaves to social media. Owners of those cars are well  entitled to enjoy their living levels and buy what they want ,where they want, when they want. Dont judge other people when you know nothing about them.