Lack of building regulation approval.

Troy_af

Good evening.

After having the survey report back for the property I'm buying, there was a comment regarding the windows and doors. It said to ensure that a FENSA certificate was available otherwise the installation of the windows and doors may not comply with building regulations.

The property has just gone 10 years old so the 10 year NHBC warranty will have just expired. So I thought this kind of thing will have been covered under a building regulations certificate and as long as we receive that for the original build there should be no issues. And surely the house must have had building regulations approval since it is still fairly new.

However, the response my solicitor has gave to this enquiry has left me a little worried. They have said that "the seller is providing an indemnity insurance for lack of building regulations approval."

I'm not sure yet if this is regarding only the windows and doors or if this is meaning that there is no building regulations documents for the property at all. The enquiries are not fully answered yet and so I haven't been given all the information. However I am just wondering is this sort of indemnity insurance normal and what exactly is it covering? Also, am I correct in thinking that for a property of this age, I should definitely be expecting a building regulations certificate from the seller? This is the first time I've bought a property over 10 year old. The last two were under 10 year old and I remember on both purchases that my solicitor specifically requested a completion certificate from the seller otherwise they could not process the sale.

Thanks for any help.

Troy_af

Also, forgot to mention that I am planning to extend the property in the future, so would a lack of regulations certificate cause a problem in this regard? 

eddddy

It sounds like some windows and/or doors have been replaced or new ones installed since the property was built. Is it a house or a flat?

What does the Seller's Property Information form say about this? Normally, question 4.1c:

4.1 Have any of the following changes been made to the whole or any part of the property (including the garden)?

(c) Installation of replacement windows, roof windows, roof lights, glazed doors since 1 April 2002

NHBC is an approved Building Control inspector, so they might provide the buildings regulations certificate as well as the warranty. But in any case, NHBC will have checked for a buildings regulations certificate, before signing-off the warranty.


The Indemnity Insurance covers you for any losses you incur as a result of the council taking enforcement action against you for lack of building regs. (But the council can only take enforcement action within 12 months of the work being done - so it might be too late anyway.)

user1977

Troy_af said:

I thought this kind of thing will have been covered under a building regulations certificate and as long as we receive that for the original build there should be no issues. And surely the house must have had building regulations approval since it is still fairly new.

This is all correct. So, has there been any suggestion that the windows/doors have been replaced? It is unfortunately not uncommon for solicitors to be making daft requests like this without considering whether there has actually been any alteration. The fact the vendor's solicitors are getting an indemnity policy may mean (a) they can't be bothered arguing the point or (b) they're just as stupid as your solicitor (or of course that the windows have actually been replaced).

Note that the FENSA certificate is just one means of confirming that the windows complied - the lack of one doesn't necessarily mean the windows don't comply with regulations.

Troy_af

eddddy said:

It sounds like some windows and/or doors have been replaced or new ones installed since the property was built. Is it a house or a flat?

What does the Seller's Property Information form say about this? Normally, question 4.1c:

4.1 Have any of the following changes been made to the whole or any part of the property (including the garden)?

(c) Installation of replacement windows, roof windows, roof lights, glazed doors since 1 April 2002

NHBC is an approved Building Control inspector, so they might provide the buildings regulations certificate as well as the warranty. But in any case, NHBC will have checked for a buildings regulations certificate, before signing-off the warranty.


The Indemnity Insurance covers you for any losses you incur as a result of the council taking enforcement action against you for lack of building regs. (But the council can only take enforcement action within 12 months of the work being done - so it might be too late anyway.)

Nothing is mentioned in the property information form about the windows and it is a house. Since the house is around 10 year old I was expecting all the windows to probably be original. It was mentioned in the survey that "There are no visible British Standard marks to some of the double glazing suggesting that is not safety glass and does not meet current standards".

Troy_af

user1977 said:

Troy_af said:

I thought this kind of thing will have been covered under a building regulations certificate and as long as we receive that for the original build there should be no issues. And surely the house must have had building regulations approval since it is still fairly new.

This is all correct. So, has there been any suggestion that the windows/doors have been replaced? It is unfortunately not uncommon for solicitors to be making daft requests like this without considering whether there has actually been any alteration. The fact the vendor's solicitors are getting an indemnity policy may mean (a) they can't be bothered arguing the point or (b) they're just as stupid as your solicitor (or of course that the windows have actually been replaced).

Note that the FENSA certificate is just one means of confirming that the windows complied - the lack of one doesn't necessarily mean the windows don't comply with regulations.

As mentioned above no reason to believe that any windows have been replaced, it was just mentioned by the surveyor to ensure that they have a FENSA guarantee and also that some don't appear to have the safety standard markings.

As I said, my main concern is not really the windows, its if there is no building approval for the rest of the property. I did notice from the local search result regarding a completion certificate it says: None available at the council, for details, copies or evidence of any certificates please contact the vendor.

user1977

Troy_af said:

user1977 said:

Troy_af said:

I thought this kind of thing will have been covered under a building regulations certificate and as long as we receive that for the original build there should be no issues. And surely the house must have had building regulations approval since it is still fairly new.

This is all correct. So, has there been any suggestion that the windows/doors have been replaced? It is unfortunately not uncommon for solicitors to be making daft requests like this without considering whether there has actually been any alteration. The fact the vendor's solicitors are getting an indemnity policy may mean (a) they can't be bothered arguing the point or (b) they're just as stupid as your solicitor (or of course that the windows have actually been replaced).

Note that the FENSA certificate is just one means of confirming that the windows complied - the lack of one doesn't necessarily mean the windows don't comply with regulations.

As mentioned above no reason to believe that any windows have been replaced, it was just mentioned by the surveyor to ensure that they have a FENSA guarantee and also that some don't appear to have the safety standard markings.

As I said, my main concern is not really the windows, its if there is no building approval for the rest of the property. I did notice from the local search result regarding a completion certificate it says: None available at the council, for details, copies or evidence of any certificates please contact the vendor.

Do you know that there was an NHBC guarantee? It would be unusual (perhaps not impossible) for something to be passed for NHBC purposes but not have been signed off for building regulation purposes.

What sort of development was it? One by a (vaguely) reputable developer or something one-off by Bob the Builder?

The difficulty with search results for this sort of thing is that the original certificate for 21 Acacia Avenue may actually be indexed under "Plot 47 The Willows" or whatever the builders knew it as.

Troy_af

user1977 said:

Troy_af said:

user1977 said:

Troy_af said:

I thought this kind of thing will have been covered under a building regulations certificate and as long as we receive that for the original build there should be no issues. And surely the house must have had building regulations approval since it is still fairly new.

This is all correct. So, has there been any suggestion that the windows/doors have been replaced? It is unfortunately not uncommon for solicitors to be making daft requests like this without considering whether there has actually been any alteration. The fact the vendor's solicitors are getting an indemnity policy may mean (a) they can't be bothered arguing the point or (b) they're just as stupid as your solicitor (or of course that the windows have actually been replaced).

Note that the FENSA certificate is just one means of confirming that the windows complied - the lack of one doesn't necessarily mean the windows don't comply with regulations.

As mentioned above no reason to believe that any windows have been replaced, it was just mentioned by the surveyor to ensure that they have a FENSA guarantee and also that some don't appear to have the safety standard markings.

As I said, my main concern is not really the windows, its if there is no building approval for the rest of the property. I did notice from the local search result regarding a completion certificate it says: None available at the council, for details, copies or evidence of any certificates please contact the vendor.

Do you know that there was an NHBC guarantee? It would be unusual (perhaps not impossible) for something to be passed for NHBC purposes but not have been signed off for building regulation purposes.

What sort of development was it? One by a (vaguely) reputable developer or something one-off by Bob the Builder?

The difficulty with search results for this sort of thing is that the original certificate for 21 Acacia Avenue may actually be indexed under "Plot 47 The Willows" or whatever the builders knew it as.

I don't know for definite if there was NHBC cover, but it is a major development by one of the biggest developers, so I assumed it would have been covered. Maybe this will be confirmed by my solicitor, or maybe it wont be brought up since the cover will have now expired, I don't know.

user1977

If it's a big developer it's pretty unlikely it won't have been signed off (in practice I think it would have been one inspection covering both NHBC and building reg compliance), so any suggestion of a lack of certificate probably just means nobody has looked for it properly.

FreeBear

Troy_af said: As mentioned above no reason to believe that any windows have been replaced, it was just mentioned by the surveyor to ensure that they have a FENSA guarantee and also that some don't appear to have the safety standard markings.

Not all windows need to be toughened/safety glass, so wouldn't need to be kite marked. Typically, fully glazed doors, windows less than 800mm from the floor, and glass within 300mm of a door need to be safety glass.

Should also point out that FENSA is not the only scheme for windows. CERTASS is another. The work could also be signed off directly by local Building Control, and if this was done at the time the house was constructed, there wouldn't be any additional certificates issued.

JIL

When our extension was built, the builders installed the windows, it was all signed off by building control.