What's my power going to cost me ?

maisie_cat

I never understand why low users argue that they should pay less standing charge, low mileage cars do not pay less road tax than a high mileage user with the same car. What we are paying for is the opportunity to have the power come to the house, regardless of whether we use 1000 kWh a year or 8000.
Last year the wooden pole by our house was replaced, the cabling across 4 fields to reach us and new cabling from the pole to our house at the end of the line. There were about 10 guys, several vehicles and heavy plant and it took 2 days. The overhead cables in the village a km away only supply 5 properties, our nearest neighbour is 250m away and it will take years of standing charge to cover that cost. I dread to think what it would have cost if we'd have to pay for our share of that. 

GingerTim

MouldyOldDough said:

Aylesbury_Duck said:

MouldyOldDough said:

Astria said:

MouldyOldDough said:

GingerTim said:

Though you use less energy that doesn't mean you use any less infrastructure to get the energy to your home than a high user, so there's no good reason why you should pay less for the standing charge.

(I say this as a low user myself).

What about the fact that since I use less power - I should pay less for fault repairs (ie Cable and High voltage pylon repairs) as well as for repairing gas leaks) ?

Cables don't go faulty because they are "used" more, if you use a little or a lot they are likely to last the same amount of time.

A low user in October might pay £120, a moderate user using double £228, almost double...

Last time I visited London, the prices in bars and restaurants cost much more than where I live because typically the working salaries are higher in London, so one would expect the SC to be higher in London too.

Sorry - but there's no difference at all in what a low user pays compared to a moderate user - everyone pays the same (£262 per year for electricty and gas) - when you consider my total bill is around £1000 pa - this is unfair

I don't agree.  Why is it unfair?  I'm also a low user, but accept that the fixed cost element of providing the physical and administrative infrastructure is similar irrespective of the size of the property or the energy consumption.  The one variable that could make a difference is the distance from the substation to the home, which for some will be larger than for others.  In practice, it would be ridiculous to start varying the standing charge for such details, so an average is the fairest means.

Why should a high consumption household of six people pay more for their standing charge than I do in a low consumption house of two occupants, or you do in your low-consumption household?

Because it should not be down to number of residents but simply amount of power consumed 

Why should high energy users - who may use more through no fault of their own - subsidise you? Imperfect as it is, the current system is probably the fairest distribution of the cost of the network.

Linking the standing charge to usage makes zero sense - though I understand why you would want it to be linked.

400ixl

Maybe we should go with a lower standing charge for low users, but a higher per KwH rate. After all higher users should get a volume discount by the same line of thinking.

It costs exactly the same to provide the infrastructure to you as it does to your near neighbours. Why should you pay less of that cost because you use less? Doesn't matter how much you use, the fixed costs of the infrastructure and maintenance are the same.

Mstty

Shall we get back to the topic at hand.

The average price expected for elec between Oct 22-Oct 23 is

65.77p kWh for elec + £170 SC

20p kWh for gas + £100 SC

So total for you staying on the SVT Oct 22-Oct 23

Gas 5264kWh

£1152.80

Electricity 1295kWh

£1021.72

Grand total £2174.52

£181.21 a month

Thanks @pochase my calculation went haywire lol🤣👍 I type a 9 instead of a zero

CapricornLass

Unfortunately, a cable costs the same per metre to install whether it is being used by a low user, or a high user. Ditto the substations, and the high voltage pylons, power stations and all the rest of the infrastructure.  Or do you expect the workmen installing the cable to accept lower wages for their work because a low user will be using it?  And how are you going to sort out something like  a substation which would be used by 10 or 20 or more thousand people?  The amount of power going through substations and power stations will be so high anyway that your low consumption will be negligible in comparison.  But you need all of those things to be available and working for power to be available at your plug socket 

I think everyone paying the same SC in their area is the fairest (and simplest) method, however galling it is to pay.

pochase

@Mstty
I think you must have gotten something wrong with electricity cost.

1295 x 0.6577 = £851.72 plus £170 standing charge = £1021.72 plus gas £1152.80 = total £ 2174.52 or £181.21 per month.

Using Auxilione forecast I get to £2395 using the same method as @Mstty, which is almost £200 per month.

Mstty

pochase said:

@Mstty
I think you must have gotten something wrong with electricity cost.

1295 x 0.6577 = £851.72 plus £170 standing charge = £1021.72 plus gas £1152.80 = total £ 2174.52 or £181.21 per month.

Using Auxilione forecast I get to £2395 using the same method as @Mstty, which is almost £200 per month.

Thanks @pochase👍

PennineAcute

MouldyOldDough said:

sienew said:

MouldyOldDough said:

Aylesbury_Duck said:

MouldyOldDough said:

MattMattMattUK said:

MouldyOldDough said:

MattMattMattUK said:

What is your annual consumption in kWh, this information should be on your bill.

Gas 5264kWh

Electricity 1295kWh

Based on the October 2022 cap estimate your annual cost would be £1,757.02 pa / £146.42 pcm
Based on the January 2023 cap estimate your annual cost would be £2,240.14 pa / £186.68 pcm

That's a huge rise - that I will really struggle to afford 
The government is going to have to do something about the situation 

It already is doing something.  The trouble is, there is a finite source of gas, it's expensive to produce, it's in high demand and we should be burning less of it, anyway.  If government starts subsidising energy to a greater extent, we'll have to pay for it by other means, which means higher taxes.  One might argue we've become addicted to relatively cheap energy that has encouraged profligacy - how many people have lights on all over and inside their houses, have hot tubs, patio heaters, multiple TVs, enormous fridges and so on?  How many drive around alone in oversized vehicles on short journeys they could easily walk or cycle?  I'm not just talking about wealthier households, these are things that are commonplace in normal family homes all over the UK.

The solution here is less consumption.  I appreciate that many people have pared back consumption already (you have quite low consumption yourself) and there isn't much room for further reduction, but there isn't a magical solution to this that's going to make energy cheap for everyone.  Energy has been relatively cheap for a long time.  We've known about the environmental cost of using too much energy for decades, and have largely ignored it.  Now it's hitting us in the pocket it's suddenly a major problem that requires government intervention.

OK reward those of us who don't use much gas then 

You are already being rewarded with low bills, far lower than the average and the govt support will pay a much larger % of your bills as a result. 

Also, gas and electric are connected. Gas used to produce (some) of your electricity, especially in winter so both prices are connected.

That's because we are very careful and don't waste power
We should be rewarded for this not maligned

Believe it or not there is a reason for this....We are careful with our use of power 
Hence we should be rewarded for doing this by reduced standing charges - I mean that we pay 41p per day standng charge for electricity - the same as  someone using 10 times as much power as we use

You are rewarded, by having a cheaper bill.

Astria

PennineAcute said:

MouldyOldDough said:

sienew said:

MouldyOldDough said:

Aylesbury_Duck said:

MouldyOldDough said:

MattMattMattUK said:

MouldyOldDough said:

MattMattMattUK said:

What is your annual consumption in kWh, this information should be on your bill.

Gas 5264kWh

Electricity 1295kWh

Based on the October 2022 cap estimate your annual cost would be £1,757.02 pa / £146.42 pcm
Based on the January 2023 cap estimate your annual cost would be £2,240.14 pa / £186.68 pcm

That's a huge rise - that I will really struggle to afford 
The government is going to have to do something about the situation 

It already is doing something.  The trouble is, there is a finite source of gas, it's expensive to produce, it's in high demand and we should be burning less of it, anyway.  If government starts subsidising energy to a greater extent, we'll have to pay for it by other means, which means higher taxes.  One might argue we've become addicted to relatively cheap energy that has encouraged profligacy - how many people have lights on all over and inside their houses, have hot tubs, patio heaters, multiple TVs, enormous fridges and so on?  How many drive around alone in oversized vehicles on short journeys they could easily walk or cycle?  I'm not just talking about wealthier households, these are things that are commonplace in normal family homes all over the UK.

The solution here is less consumption.  I appreciate that many people have pared back consumption already (you have quite low consumption yourself) and there isn't much room for further reduction, but there isn't a magical solution to this that's going to make energy cheap for everyone.  Energy has been relatively cheap for a long time.  We've known about the environmental cost of using too much energy for decades, and have largely ignored it.  Now it's hitting us in the pocket it's suddenly a major problem that requires government intervention.

OK reward those of us who don't use much gas then 

You are already being rewarded with low bills, far lower than the average and the govt support will pay a much larger % of your bills as a result. 

Also, gas and electric are connected. Gas used to produce (some) of your electricity, especially in winter so both prices are connected.

That's because we are very careful and don't waste power
We should be rewarded for this not maligned

Believe it or not there is a reason for this....We are careful with our use of power 
Hence we should be rewarded for doing this by reduced standing charges - I mean that we pay 41p per day standng charge for electricity - the same as  someone using 10 times as much power as we use

You are rewarded, by having a cheaper bill.

and that could be a substantially cheaper bill if p/kWh climbs to 90p !

I'll be going from 15p/kWh to 59p/kWh come October which will likely be higher than the cap, but should hopefully be cheaper come January.

MouldyOldDough

Astria said:

PennineAcute said:

MouldyOldDough said:

sienew said:

MouldyOldDough said:

Aylesbury_Duck said:

MouldyOldDough said:

MattMattMattUK said:

MouldyOldDough said:

MattMattMattUK said:

What is your annual consumption in kWh, this information should be on your bill.

Gas 5264kWh

Electricity 1295kWh

Based on the October 2022 cap estimate your annual cost would be £1,757.02 pa / £146.42 pcm
Based on the January 2023 cap estimate your annual cost would be £2,240.14 pa / £186.68 pcm

That's a huge rise - that I will really struggle to afford 
The government is going to have to do something about the situation 

It already is doing something.  The trouble is, there is a finite source of gas, it's expensive to produce, it's in high demand and we should be burning less of it, anyway.  If government starts subsidising energy to a greater extent, we'll have to pay for it by other means, which means higher taxes.  One might argue we've become addicted to relatively cheap energy that has encouraged profligacy - how many people have lights on all over and inside their houses, have hot tubs, patio heaters, multiple TVs, enormous fridges and so on?  How many drive around alone in oversized vehicles on short journeys they could easily walk or cycle?  I'm not just talking about wealthier households, these are things that are commonplace in normal family homes all over the UK.

The solution here is less consumption.  I appreciate that many people have pared back consumption already (you have quite low consumption yourself) and there isn't much room for further reduction, but there isn't a magical solution to this that's going to make energy cheap for everyone.  Energy has been relatively cheap for a long time.  We've known about the environmental cost of using too much energy for decades, and have largely ignored it.  Now it's hitting us in the pocket it's suddenly a major problem that requires government intervention.

OK reward those of us who don't use much gas then 

You are already being rewarded with low bills, far lower than the average and the govt support will pay a much larger % of your bills as a result. 

Also, gas and electric are connected. Gas used to produce (some) of your electricity, especially in winter so both prices are connected.

That's because we are very careful and don't waste power
We should be rewarded for this not maligned

Believe it or not there is a reason for this....We are careful with our use of power 
Hence we should be rewarded for doing this by reduced standing charges - I mean that we pay 41p per day standng charge for electricity - the same as  someone using 10 times as much power as we use

You are rewarded, by having a cheaper bill.

and that could be a substantially cheaper bill if p/kWh climbs to 90p !

I'll be going from 15p/kWh to 59p/kWh come October which will likely be higher than the cap, but should hopefully be cheaper come January.

90p would not be acceptable by the majority of the UK population - there would be riots ! 
Why will it be cheaper come January?
Are you predicting a drop in rates?