PCN - not parked in bay correctly

Teacake1903

Hi all

Thought I’d start this thread but really hope that I won’t need your help. I’d be interested in your thoughts.

We’ve received a PCN at a local retail park for not parking correctly within the markings of a space. We did this as the car on one side was right up to the edge of their bay and the other side is surrounded by low hawthorn hedges so it was difficult to park properly without scratching our car. As we were only staying for a short time we thought we’d take up two spaces. On return we found the PCN on the windscreen.

Parking company is UKPC. Times below are not as per the ticket but are indicative.

The PCN states : Issue time 15:14
                             Time first seen 15.14

We left the store we were visiting at 15:20 which we can prove and returned straight to our car . I then took a picture of our car timed at 15:23 correctly parked having found the PCN.

By my reckoning that is a 9 minute gap.

On checking the BPA Codes of Practice Grace Periods, it says there MUST be a 10 minute difference between seeing the parking event and issuing a PCN. 

I have appealed to the UKPC on this basis. 

Any thoughts on success at this point ?

Coupon-mad

On checking the BPA Codes of Practice Grace Periods, it says there MUST be a 10 minute difference between seeing the parking event and issuing a PCN. 

No, sadly it doesn't.

The consideration period in the BPA CoP is 5 minutes.  And once you've walked away and left the car parked across two bays there is at that point, no consideration period allowed as you are deemed to have accepted the risk and charge.

I have appealed to the UKPC on this basis. 

I hope you waited till day 26 and didn't tick 'DRIVER' nor talk about who parked?

What happened when you tried PLAN A from the NEWBIES thread first? Because if you admitted to driving, you won't win this at POPLA.

Teacake1903

Thanks Coupon. No admissions to driver has been made. Tried speaking to the store but they said it was out of their hands.

Codes of Practice says

13.3 Where a parking location is one where a limited period of parking is permitted, or where drivers contract to park for a defined period and pay for that service in advance (Pay & Display), this would be considered as a parking event and a Grace Period of at least 10 minutes must be added to the end of a parking event before you issue a PCN.

So the way I read it, if it was on double yellows or hatched markings this is not where parking is permitted , but I was parked in an area where parking was permitted. 

KeithP

Teacake1903 said:

We’ve received a PCN at a local retail park for not parking correctly within the markings of a space. We did this as the car on one side was right up to the edge of their bay and the other side is surrounded by low hawthorn hedges so it was difficult to park properly without scratching our car. As we were only staying for a short time we thought we’d take up two spaces.

Sorry, I can't work out how that is even plausible.

A bay has a car parked up against it on one side and a hawthorn hedge on the other side so I can understand you not wanting to park in that bay. So you chose to park somewhere else in the car park but utilising two bays.

Have I got that right so far?

If you parked somewhere else in the car park, why have you even bothered to mention the bay with the hawthorn hedge?

Teacake1903

3 bays altogether . Bay on the left has hawthorn hedges on the left of it so passenger door hits the hedges. Bay on the right has car parked in it but we’ll over to the left of that bay making parking in the centre bay difficult to open drivers door. Hence the reason why I parked in the left bay but a tyres width over the right hand line of that bay

Hope that makes sense 

Coupon-mad

Well, let's hope that UKPC forget to send you a NTK because you didn't have 10 minutes (or any allowed minutes) in 2 bays so that's a non starter at POPLA.

Teacake1903

Coupon-mad said:

Well, let's hope that UKPC forget to send you a NTK because you didn't have 10 minutes (or any allowed minutes) in 2 bays so that's a non starter at POPLA.

Not even with my explanation which can be seen on their evidential photographs ? We weren’t awkward and parked across 2 bays for the sake of it. 

Mouse007

You parked across 2 bays - and your defence is?

"As we were only staying for a short time we thought we’d take up two spaces".

and

"So the way I read it, if it was on double yellows or hatched markings this is not where parking is permitted , but I was parked in an area where parking was permitted."

I think you will find parking was permitted within a marked space, not across 2, 3 or more. There are several online forums dedicated to posting photos of parking like this.

How about parking properly, a little further away, and walking? In retail parks I tend to park as far away as possible, the little walk does me good.

Coming across as selfish and entitled won't generate much sympathy here.

vegansaver

I think we can all cut him a bit of slack.

Popped into the shop for a few minutes, saw one car was over the lines and didn't want to park up against the bush. I expect in his head, he simply thought i'd rush in and grab a couple of bits and be out in a minute without thinking it would affect anyone else.

We don't know if there were lots of other bays free, perhaps there were and perhaps that's why he didn't think it'd even be a problem based on the circumstances. 

It's not like he has parked across two bays for the sake of it and then gone off for hours. 

You know what i think would do more good in such a situation, a simple warning. Look if you do this again you'll get a ticket and I very much doubt he would do it again. 

It's just a shame that he didn't come here first and follow the guidance as that would have helped.

Coupon-mad

Teacake1903 said:

Coupon-mad said:

Well, let's hope that UKPC forget to send you a NTK because you didn't have 10 minutes (or any allowed minutes) in 2 bays so that's a non starter at POPLA.

Not even with my explanation which can be seen on their evidential photographs ? We weren’t awkward and parked across 2 bays for the sake of it. 

I realise that but that point is unwinnable at POPLA, as long as the signs said 'park within a marked bay'.  Which UKPC signs do.

They'll say you should have parked in a different bay and by choosing to park across two, you accepted the contract to pay UKPC £100.  POPLA will agree.  POPLA are unable to consider mitigating circumstances such as you describe (the overgrown hawthorn bush and/or how another car had parked).  Don't try that. It is outside the POPLA remit entirely and cannot win.

Nor can any grace period argument because parking across 2 bays is unauthorised.

Which is why you hope UKPC don't send you a NTK, as long as you are certain you only appealed as keeper and not details about 'why I parked as I did' nor 'I was only there for a few minutes'.

What exact wording did you put in as your appeal?

Mouse007

Teacake1903 said:

I have appealed to the UKPC on this basis. 

Any thoughts on success at this point ?

Sorry, forgot to answer your question.

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