Refund denied for a returned tent as deemed 'used' by removing it from box

shiraz99

mr_stripey said:

shiraz99 said:

DanDare999 said:

biscan25 said:

We bought a tent from Decathlon a couple of months ago. I bought from the shop as I had a physical voucher from a previous mishap, but had found the tent online. The store didn't have it up as a display model, so the assistant said to go grab a coffee and they'd put one up for me! A+ customer service, but I probably would've bought a different tent if I could have seen it erected.

So I'd say erecting the tent is reasonable for inspection, as people would normally be able to see the tent up in the shop.

My local Decathlon has them erected on the grass outside, would you be happy paying full price for that one?

I'm sorry but that has no relevance. The fact remains, regardless of whatever reason the OP has chosen to cancel the purchase (and they don't have to give any), they are entitled to handle the goods in the same way they could reasonably do in a bricks and mortar store.

But you can't go into a bricks and mortar store and pick a tent and pitch it outside to decide if it's as big as it says on the packaging, can you?

I've been to many an outdoor shop, usually in the bigger retail parks, where they have tents pitched up in store and out the front, in fact I was a tent sale at a garden centre the other day and they had a full range of tents on display outside.

Ergates

DanDare999 said:

biscan25 said:

We bought a tent from Decathlon a couple of months ago. I bought from the shop as I had a physical voucher from a previous mishap, but had found the tent online. The store didn't have it up as a display model, so the assistant said to go grab a coffee and they'd put one up for me! A+ customer service, but I probably would've bought a different tent if I could have seen it erected.

So I'd say erecting the tent is reasonable for inspection, as people would normally be able to see the tent up in the shop.

My local Decathlon has them erected on the grass outside, would you be happy paying full price for that one?

If it had been assembled erected then taken down 5 minutes later - yes absolutely.

Once it's spent days/weeks/months exposed to the elements and been poked and prodded by countless other customers - no, obviously not.

Apples/Oranges.

Ergates

mr_stripey said:

you don't need to erect a tent to know how big it is - the dimensions on the packaging/website will tell you this

The dimensions on the website will tell you how big a shirt or a pair of shoes are too.  But they won't tell you if they're a good fit.

Ergates

DanDare999 said:

nedlammas said:

DanDare999 said:

biscan25 said:

DanDare999 said:

biscan25 said:

We bought a tent from Decathlon a couple of months ago. I bought from the shop as I had a physical voucher from a previous mishap, but had found the tent online. The store didn't have it up as a display model, so the assistant said to go grab a coffee and they'd put one up for me! A+ customer service, but I probably would've bought a different tent if I could have seen it erected.

So I'd say erecting the tent is reasonable for inspection, as people would normally be able to see the tent up in the shop.

My local Decathlon has them erected on the grass outside, would you be happy paying full price for that one?

No, because it's been outside. Waterproofing degrades under UV light. I'd pay full price for the inside pitched one though.

So has the OP's

I don't imagine it would degrade much in 10 minutes outside?

They only have your word it was that long. 

A cursory inspection would reveal the tent had not been outside for long and/or used.

DanDare999

Ergates said:

mr_stripey said:

you don't need to erect a tent to know how big it is - the dimensions on the packaging/website will tell you this

The dimensions on the website will tell you how big a shirt or a pair of shoes are too.  But they won't tell you if they're a good fit.

Go on then, tell us how you check a tent for a good fit. Can't see a tent seven foot in length pinching your toes a bit.

Interesting you mentioned shoes, can you give an example of a shop that would take them back after a ten minute walk outside?

shiraz99

DanDare999 said:

Ergates said:

mr_stripey said:

you don't need to erect a tent to know how big it is - the dimensions on the packaging/website will tell you this

The dimensions on the website will tell you how big a shirt or a pair of shoes are too.  But they won't tell you if they're a good fit.

Go on then, tell us how you check a tent for a good fit. Can't see a tent seven foot in length pinching your toes a bit.

Interesting you mentioned shoes, can you give an example of a shop that would take them back after a ten minute walk outside?

Have you actually purchased and owned a tent before?

DanDare999

shiraz99 said:

DanDare999 said:

Ergates said:

mr_stripey said:

you don't need to erect a tent to know how big it is - the dimensions on the packaging/website will tell you this

The dimensions on the website will tell you how big a shirt or a pair of shoes are too.  But they won't tell you if they're a good fit.

Go on then, tell us how you check a tent for a good fit. Can't see a tent seven foot in length pinching your toes a bit.

Interesting you mentioned shoes, can you give an example of a shop that would take them back after a ten minute walk outside?

Have you actually purchased and owned a tent before?

Have you come across that wasn't a good fit?

shiraz99

DanDare999 said:

shiraz99 said:

DanDare999 said:

Ergates said:

mr_stripey said:

you don't need to erect a tent to know how big it is - the dimensions on the packaging/website will tell you this

The dimensions on the website will tell you how big a shirt or a pair of shoes are too.  But they won't tell you if they're a good fit.

Go on then, tell us how you check a tent for a good fit. Can't see a tent seven foot in length pinching your toes a bit.

Interesting you mentioned shoes, can you give an example of a shop that would take them back after a ten minute walk outside?

Have you actually purchased and owned a tent before?

Have you come across that wasn't a good fit?

Well if you have to ask, you clearly have no idea.

I'll go back to my earlier car analogy. All 4 seat cars should seat 4 adults, that doesn't mean they're all going to be a good fit for four adults. Not all 4 berth tents are going to have the same "fit" for four people.

DanDare999

shiraz99 said:

DanDare999 said:

shiraz99 said:

DanDare999 said:

Ergates said:

mr_stripey said:

you don't need to erect a tent to know how big it is - the dimensions on the packaging/website will tell you this

The dimensions on the website will tell you how big a shirt or a pair of shoes are too.  But they won't tell you if they're a good fit.

Go on then, tell us how you check a tent for a good fit. Can't see a tent seven foot in length pinching your toes a bit.

Interesting you mentioned shoes, can you give an example of a shop that would take them back after a ten minute walk outside?

Have you actually purchased and owned a tent before?

Have you come across that wasn't a good fit?

Well if you have to ask, you clearly have no idea.

I'll go back to my earlier car analogy. All 4 seat cars should seat 4 adults, that doesn't mean they're all going to be a good fit for four adults. Not all 4 berth tents are going to have the same "fit" for four people.

Explain it then, how can you not establish the "fit" of a tent from the dimensions?

Give me a car brochure and I'd have an accurate idea of how much room I'd have in the back without a test drive. 

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

VohnnyJegas said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

DanDare999 said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

As highlighted by P_F, if the company didn't provide the required information then the handling is a moot point as the company can't reduce the refund for diminished value.

Guidance below could probably cause more debate than getting to a definitive answer but personally opening and pitching a tent is similar to trying on a T-shirt, assuming it's done indoors, as you could argue you'd expect to see display tents in camping stores and pitching one at home is the same as interacting with a display model. 

https://www.businesscompanion.info/en/quick-guides/distance-sales/consumer-contracts-distance-sales#Effectsofwithdrawalorcancellation

This [diminished value/excessive handling] is likely to be a controversial area of the Regulations for both consumers and traders and will ultimately be a matter for a court to decide. However, the following examples will attempt to illustrate this concept:

• a consumer returns a shirt that comes in a presentation box, which they had opened and removed all the pins and packaging to try it on. It is reasonable to expect a consumer to remove packaging to try on or examine an item, so you should make no deduction for this
• a consumer returns a shirt, which you can see has clearly been worn. The consumer has not acted reasonably and you can make a deduction for diminishing the value
• a consumer returns flat pack furniture, which they have clearly attempted to assemble by opening packs of screws and trying to put parts together. The consumer has not acted reasonably and you can make a deduction for diminishing the value

You are not able to make any deduction for diminishing the value of the goods if you have not provided consumers with the information about their right to cancel (information item 'l' above).

Pollycat said:

But will those tents be sold at full price or marked down as 'display models'?

The legislation doesn't really note the trader's ability to resell the goods or whether they will achieve a certain price.

You can certainly argue a tent that's been opened and pitched might have had it's value diminished but the point to focus on is whether the handling was excessive

So if they don't provide cancellation details, can you buy the tent, try it out for a week on holiday and then return it?

You can buy a tent (at a distance or off-premises), try it out for a week on holiday and then return it anyway. The right to cancel is not linked to the condition of the goods (except for things such as software, DVDs, etc if unsealed after delivery or the hygiene thing).

However where the trader provides the correct information on the right to cancel they can reduce the refund under diminished value rules.

If they fail to give the correct information they must issue a full refund as the regs specifically state no reduction permitted for diminished value without the correct info and there is no other allowance for the trader to make deductions. Equally the cancellation period is extended so you could buy the tent, live in it for a year and 14 days and then cancel the contract for a full refund, this is why I find it surprising so many traders fail to get the info correct as it's pretty basic stuff and they would be in a much better position by following the requirements. 

You're, again, falling into this black and white "the law says this" mentality that is your ultimate downfall, along with the holy_demon.

Who says "they must issue a full refund"?  Legislation?  OK, so who is going to enforce that?

The courts.

Do you really think a judge is going to just award a full refund to someone who has bought a tent, used it for a week and then returned it for a refund based on a technicality?  Really?

Going back to the real world, such a case would almost certainly fail because judges do also look a the spirit of the law, rather than the exact wording of it. It's why we have precedent.

You could argue the toss with the OP's situation perhaps (although I'm leanign on them being expected to see what it states on the outside of the package first rather than fully erecting it), but regurgitating legislation assuming it's black and white isn't really helpful here, and the more sensible posters have pointed this out.

I don't usually bite but I'm glad we are in agreement on this occasion.

We've already established in the thread that the spirit of the law is to punish the trader for not providing the correct information and so the "judge" would follow the spirit of the law and also punish the trader for not following their obligations