Dealer finds a fault after buying my car.

maxmycardagain

Caveat Emptor....

in this case.... Emptor KMA (last bit is not Latin)

Please cease all communications and ignore calls or emails, the more you reply the more they will try 

Goudy

Now that there is a little more clarity regarding the vehicle status, there now seems to be only one grey area that the buying dealer and probably Motorway may try to lever with you.

This is the terminology in Motorways T&C regarding inspection.

The dealer has completed the transaction with you and then inspected the vehicle later, which according to them found a problem and they want out.

Motorways T&C clearly state it was the dealers responsibilty to do this prior or on collection, either by themselves or a third party.
The dealer is now stating whoever collected the car wasn't the inspector, just their collector.

Now in your original post you wrote that this person negotiated a final price based on an in-person viewing.

If that person who came to collect the car made an offer below the price first offered by the dealer via Motorway based on the condition at the time they arrived (ie, they came, looked at the car however briefly and offered you less) there would be no mistaking this person for anything other than the dealers inspector and that the dealer employed this person to inspect and negotiate for the car prior or on collection on their behalf.

If they did this properly or not is not really your concern. They may argue this wasn't possible at the time, you vehicle was too complicated to do it there and then etc, but the terms and conditions do not state the dealer can buy your vehicle on a trial basis. 

If the dealer argues the person who turned up was just their collector then they would have forfeited their only opportunity to inspect the car under Motorways T&C's. So it's lose lose whichever way they play this.

As it wasn't clear until recently the status of the serious fault, there was an assumption the vehicle may have been misrepresented, this could still be the case but the dealer would have to prove it was probable you misrepresented it somehow, either with them or via Motorways system. (if they insist whoever collected it was just a collecter, you couldn't have misrepresented to them).

If you are positive this wasn't the case and there is nothing to help the dealer with this point
(like a service record highlighting the issue or related issue to the problem they say they found)
Plus their "collector" negotiated a different price, then if it was me I would sticking to my guns and not take the vehicle back.

If it all ended up in court, the dealer would have a impossible job to prove it was probable you misrepresented the car and that even if their collector was just a collector, they failed to meet Motorways T&C's to inspect the car prior to or on collection.

If the collector was their inspector, they failed to do their job properly, they were at fault.
After all they negotiated for the faults on collection, who's to say they didn't negotiate for that particular fault?

Whichever it is, none of it was your fault.

caprikid1

"If you are positive this wasn't the case"

Given the nature of terms and relationship I think the dealer is going to have to work very hard in a court of law to prove otherwise, given that as you rightly said a final price was negotiated that's more than just a driver.

It's not rocket science to train a driver to plug in a code reader.

Firm but polite, your car your problem, I sold in good faith to a dealer a car with no known faults to avoid this exact scenario.

Goudy

caprikid1 said:

"If you are positive this wasn't the case"

Given the nature of terms and relationship I think the dealer is going to have to work very hard in a court of law to prove otherwise, given that as you rightly said a final price was negotiated that's more than just a driver.

It's not rocket science to train a driver to plug in a code reader.

Firm but polite, your car your problem, I sold in good faith to a dealer a car with no known faults to avoid this exact scenario.

I used this phrase as there might be something in the service history or elsewhere that might point to a problem before the sale.

I am aware Toyota and others will check the condition of the traction battery of Hybrids at service.
If the fault was say the traction battery, there could be a record of that in the service history, after all it had been serviced at the dealers sometime last year.

If so the seller would have been aware of this and may be accused of misrepresenting the car.

I would not want anyone to take a risk, however small unless they are positive.

This situation isn't as clear cut as Caveat Emptor.
By signing up to Motorways T&C's it's muddied the waters somewhat and a contract has been entered by both parties.

This contract will have to protect both interests, but one of those is the dealer.

m0bov

Goudy said:

caprikid1 said:

"If you are positive this wasn't the case"

Given the nature of terms and relationship I think the dealer is going to have to work very hard in a court of law to prove otherwise, given that as you rightly said a final price was negotiated that's more than just a driver.

It's not rocket science to train a driver to plug in a code reader.

Firm but polite, your car your problem, I sold in good faith to a dealer a car with no known faults to avoid this exact scenario.

I used this phrase as there might be something in the service history or elsewhere that might point to a problem before the sale.

I am aware Toyota and others will check the condition of the traction battery of Hybrids at service.
If the fault was say the traction battery, there could be a record of that in the service history, after all it had been serviced at the dealers sometime last year.

If so the seller would have been aware of this and may be accused of misrepresenting the car.

I would not want anyone to take a risk, however small unless they are positive.

This situation isn't as clear cut as Caveat Emptor.
By signing up to Motorways T&C's it's muddied the waters somewhat and a contract has been entered by both parties.

This contract will have to protect both interests, but one of those is the dealer.

Only if they were asked if there was a fault with the battery, the seller does'nt have to disclose anything, that's not misrepresenting anything.

Goudy

They are asked.

This is one of the differences between a normal private sale and what takes place when a site like Motorway is involved.

Whoever uses these sites to sell their car agree to the their terms and conditions.
Part of those terms and conditions are they confirm details about their vehicle.

What do people think happens if the seller or dealer breaks those terms and conditions?
Please, tell me I honestly would like to know.


These are some, but not all of the details the seller has to confirm.

Before you continue, please confirm the vehicle:

• Has a valid MOT
• Is not an insurance write-off
• Does not have major damage or serious mechanical faults
• Has not been used as a taxi, an emergency vehicle, or for driving tuition

So, lets say there is a serious mechanical fault known by a seller but they confirmed via the Motorway site there wasn't.
(I am clearly not saying that is the case with the OP, this is an example)

What is that?
A mistake, maybe, but is the buyer responsible for that under Motorways terms and conditions?
Misrepresentation, maybe, yes if there was any proof, but is the buyer responsible for that under Motorways terms and conditions?

I would expect Motorways T&Cs would unequivocally favour the buyer in these instances.


What about the seller genuinely confirming there wasn't a serious mechanical fault to their knowledge but there actually was one?
It appears from Motorways T&Cs the time for this was the inspection on or prior to the collection, not after it.

This is why I wrote it's all a bit grey.
It's not a normal private sale as both parties agreed to certain terms and conditions, then agreement between each other was based on those conditions.

maxmycardagain

Like with an MOT (only valid at the moment of its test) a seller may be sure a car is good, but the instant a buyer (private or trade) takes it away anything can happen, is the seller liable for a mechanical issue once out of their ownership?

macman

Goudy said:

Backtracking might be the only move.

You've been a bit coy with what is wrong with the car, saying it's a serious fault that doesn't effect the way the car drives.

The dealer has bought it from you, listed it on Autotrader, discovered there is this serious fault and seems more than confident they can reject it, get refunded and even bill you for transportation.

Is the car some sort of insurance write off that you either didn't know about or didn't disclose at the time of sale?

I can only think that the dealer didn't HPi it themselves as Autotrader automatically do when a car is listed. Which is when they discovered the serious fault.

No. The OP sold the car as seen. They are not a dealer, did not mis-describe the vehicle, and the dealer examined it and accepted it. It was roadworthy.
They have no grounds for rejecting it, regardless of whatever faults it might or might not have.The OP was not aware of any 'serious faults', and even if they had been, they do not have to declare them! 
OP should cease all contact with them and under no circumstances accept the vehicle back. If the dealer is unhappy they are free to take it to small clams or the county court. They won't, as they have no case whatsoever.
This is a private sale by the OP, and as such the dealer has minimal rights. Her mistake was to engage with them at all after the sale was concluded.
I have no idea what the dealer might be playing at, but it's no longer her concern.

Jenni_D

You've replied to a post from 2.5 days ago - a lot has changed/become clearer since that post.  

FWIW I agree that having a 3rd party in the mix complicates things a little - it means the seller has to abide by certain T&Cs which may obviate elements of Caveat Emptor.

The_Fat_Controller

@macman suggest you read this

https://help.motorway.co.uk/hc/en-gb/sections/4410270213138-Profiling-your-vehicle

It is not "sold as seen" , the seller has to make an honest declaration of the history and condition of the vehicle.

As @Jenni_D has said above, it is not as simple as a private sale.