Please help settle a debate

frivolous_fay

Economy tariffs:

Do you have a completely separate electricity circuit that doesn't activate until the timer kicks in... or....

Does EVERYTHING in your house run cheaper at the off-peak times?

TIA...

whatatwit

If you are referring to 'Economy 7' then you have 2 meters.

I presume that everything uses the cheaper meter after a certain time.

Have a look at http://www.uswitch.com/Energy/Economy7.html

frivolous_fay

We're actually on economy 10.

I presume the same as you, but O/H disagrees. The answer would have a significant impact on our plans for renovating the heating

whatatwit

I've just had to google economy 10......that appears to be a cheap daytime tarriff.... http://www.heatandcool.co.uk/13.html

so, do you already have 2 meters? Or, if not how do they calculate what you have used on cheap rate and what on regular rate?

frivolous_fay

We have 3 meters. A bit irritating really, we've never had economy 10 before and the heaters are a bit baffling.

'how do they calculate what you have used on cheap rate and what on regular rate?'

That's the million dollar question

We want to move the heaters - but O/H is telling me 'we can't put one there, there's wiring there but it's not on the special rate' whereas I'm of the opinion that wiring is wiring, and it shouldn't matter where they're connected - it's the timer that counts.

Still unsure!

Mr_Proctalgia

OK - Here is my take on it - I have Economy 7 BTW

With E7 I have a twin rate meter which runs on its own timer (some are also fitted with radio switches - More later) From early moring till just after midnight (More later) everything in my houses uses the higher rate of leccy - From just after midnight till 7 am EVERYTHING runs on the cheap rate.
As my meter is timed, at this time of the year I get low rate leccy from 00.12am till 07.12 am when the clocks go forward in spring the meter timer stays the same so I get cheap leccy for everything from 01.12 am to 08.12 am (This is empirical - I have watched and timed the meter)
If you have E7 and Storage heating then either the timer in the meter will turn the heaters on (perhaps through a contactor) or you will have your own timer and seperate "Fuse box" just for the storage heaters. You may also have another separate feed to the heaters to give you a (very expensive) top up during the day if needed.
If your meter has a radio switch then the switching times are altered when the clocks go forward or back and your cheap rate leccy stays the same time all through the year (I had this scenario in my last house) The BBC through a signal on Radio 4 switches your meter rates!

With E10 you get 3 rates of leccy but these only apply to your heating, the heaters are on seperate circuits so if you move them then you need to extend their individual cables or run new ones back to their own "fuse board" and meters. You will get typically midnight to 5 am as the cheapest rate then and afternoon top up from 1pm till 4 pm on a middle rate and the heaters are generaly unusable for all the other times.
I have seen houses with 1 three rate meter, 2 meters and 3 meters - The main difference is that you only get cheap heating - However when I was involved in a property in the wilds of Scotland we wired the washer and tumler into the heater circuits!!!
They are usually only switched by the use of timers up there too.

Points to note - If, like me, you try to use as much cheap rate leccy as possible then it is important that all your timers accurately mirror the timer on the meter and not the actual time of day, you want things to switch on when the cheap rate comes on and also think about when you may be using the results of usig this electricity - For instance when I had an immersion heater I set its timer to come on for 1 1/2 hours before the cheap leccy went off to maximise hot water in the mornings and I set the washer and dishie to come on one after the other in the early morning (Less noise and it made the kitchen warmer in the mornings)

I hope this helps - Give me a heads up if I have confused you even more.

tomstickland

Everything is cheaper during the E7 times.

You can check this for yourself by watching the meter when the E7 is on.

What can confuse people is that the E7 heating is on a circuit that is only on when the E7 is on.

If this wasn't the case then I wouldn't bother running my washing machine overnight, since it comes off the normal wall socket.

frivolous_fay

Ok, so houses vary, so there could be a few different setups?

This if from the thread I posted when we moved in and I didn't understand economy 10 at alll... it may settle things one way or another!?

'3 heaters in the lounge. 2 have two switches on them, 'Normal Rate' and 'Off Peak'
2 timers in the kitchen, one for upstairs, one for downstairs. Each has a switch you can set, Off, Timed, or Constant.
Upstairs, one heater has a 'Timed' switch alone, and the other has a 'Normal Rate' switch. There's also some kind of convection heater which doesn't have any switch at all.

Using the switches on the heaters downstairs doesn't seem to make them operate in a logical way... ie. we think they're off, but when we come home one of them is warm. (Same settings!)'

tomstickland

Most storage heaters have two feeds:
-one is a dedicated E7 feed that is only on during the off-peak hours
-the other is connected to the regular mains and allows you to run instant convection heaters built into the units.

Any additional timers must be because the item is running off the normal mains and the timer has been added so the item can be made to run off peak.

frivolous_fay

So... based on what I've posted... is there an idiot-proof answer to the original question?

Terrylw1

Just to clarify (and attached links to the same questions for you to read).

Metering works this way:

1 - 2 meters, 1 is credit standard & 1 is off peak. The off peak works on bursts. This means each meter is seperate and has it's own MPAN. This is an old way of doing things and is classed as a "preserved" tariff now so they don't fit them.

2 - you have E7. This is just 1 meter with 1 MPAN. However you fit 2 sets of tails from your fusebox, 1 for day rate and 1 for night rate

3 - you have a 3 rate meter e.g. E10, Supertariff etc. These are 2 MPAN affairs and are region specific.

Your E7 is simple, it works generally from 11:30-6:30, 12-7, 12:30-7:30 and they get altered for the DST as an other poster has said. The region times vary between these set times. You wire your heating which you want on 7 hours solid per night to the fusebox tails which go to the off peak side of the meter. Everything else is wired to the peak tail but will still operate on the off peak rate which it switches over. You can do it through seperate fuseboxes or just use one.

With the 2 meter Crd & OP set up it's different. The wiring side works the same as above but the OP uses daytime bursts of 1, 2 or 3. These are considered better for OAP's and the disabled. You just wire up your heating to the OP tails.

E10 - You get the usual E7 burst in the night but you also get a 3 hour burst in the day or it can be 3 bursts evening. morning & night and depends on old board region. Thats why it's called Economy 10. You get three elements to this though, day rate, night rate and heating rate. You wire things up to correctly be used by each of these 3.

E10 will have 3 rates in terms of charges as well.


In answer to your original question. Yes. You wire your fusebox up so that the tails into the meter match the rate. Your sparky will do that. Then the metering company just attach your consumer tails when they fit the meter. With E7, E10, E18 and all those others you get permanent elec through day and night rate but you wire your storage heaters up to the off peak only side which means they only come on during that time. So, with E10 your storage heaters would be wiring up to off peak & heating rate elements, but not your peak rate 24 hour elec side. Everything else would be though so all other devices can get the benefit of cheaper elec at certain times but are not disabled by the timeswitch when it clicks off.

You can fit private timeswitches as well to control your devices outside of these times.

If you want more detail of the technical side, I can post some links on here if it helps. Can't help anymor with the fusebox side.


http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=7206131&highlight=E10#post7206131

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=579856&highlight=E10