Water inlet pipe/Stop-valve

warwick2001

Morning all,

Hope all is well.

Putting a new kitchen in, and under the sink cupboard, the pipework is pretty terrible, so got a plumber to come round and tidy everything up. However.... upon further inspection (removing the back of the cupboard), we don't have the good ole fashioned brass stopcock, but a ruddy great black plastic thing. (see pics). 






The cut pipe you can see in the pic is actually the old pipe that connected the old stopcock (I assume the old water inlet pipe), so they didn't bother removing it, just cut and left in-situ. Not the best job.... The water now comes into the property via that blue plastic pipe you can see, I think the plumber said it was 25mm, but might have misheard. And there's also a loose electric cable hanging about under there, which will obviously be moved. I suspect the original installer was either not a plumber, or this was a Friday afternoon 'get to the pub asap' job.

Half way up the plastic fitting there are 2 brackets which look like the whole thing should be mounted against the wall, but as you can see it sticks out about 5 inches, and there's a copper pipe running behind, so this would all need to be moved to have a much neater install.

Now, the plumber reckons the black plastic tap fitting shouldn't be removed and replaced with a brass tap, as its the future (he reckons most new builds are fitted with a similar set-up, just installed much more neatly). So, thoughts? Should I try and replace the big black fitting, or leave as is, try to get the plumber to tidy it up a bit, and then hide behind the new cupboard back? We're going for a sink drawer unit, so will have to cut a chuck out of the drawers to fit around the plastic monstrosity. Annoying, but hey-ho. There seems to be an excess of pipework going on, but then again I don't know a huge amount about waterworks, so maybe there're all necessary?

Also, does anyone know what's behind the cover half way up the black plastic fitting? Is it a reducer, or filter or something? 

 

Section62

warwick2001 said:

Also, does anyone know what's behind the cover half way up the black plastic fitting? Is it a reducer, or filter or something? 

 

It looks like a concentric meter port, hence the brackets to provide additional support.

Have you got a water meter already?  If not, is your property a flat or part of a shared building?

warwick2001

Yeah, we're on a meter. It was fitted before we moved in, the house was previously a rental property. Not a flat/shared property, its a semi-detached.

Couple more examples of the shoddy work, look how angled the plastic fitting is. Surely not normal.....



And finally more isolation valves than you can shake a stick at....



Not too bothered about the valves, you never know when you need to isolate something. That earth wire tho....oh dear!

shiraz99

Those isolation valves are serving a purpose; one for the hot tap, one for the cold tap and the cold feed for an appliance and presumably the other one is feeding an outside tap. Nothing wrong with that tbh.

Yes the plastic stopcock installation could be prettier but again, it's not worth changing.

Section62

warwick2001 said:

Couple more examples of the shoddy work, look how angled the plastic fitting is. Surely not normal.....

Not ideal, but fitting it flush on the wall would have required other pipes to be moved and further expense.  If you asked for it to be fitted flush to the wall and done in a particular way (and were paying for that) then it should have been done that way.  If not....

warwick2001 said:

And finally more isolation valves than you can shake a stick at....

Not too bothered about the valves, you never know when you need to isolate something. That earth wire tho....oh dear!

Completely normal.

One to isolate the hot water to the sink.  One to isolate the cold water.  An isolator for the outside tap(?) and a washing machine conector with built-in isolator.  I'd have done the same, although using lever ball valves instead -

https://www.screwfix.com/p/lever-ball-valve-red-blue-15mm/8247v

What is wrong with the 'earth wire'? Is there something out of shot?

Bendy_House

Hi Warwick.

Yes, it's a bit untidy, but not unusually so for a layout that's been changed over time, and yours has been given a completely new supply. 

So, can it be tidied? Certainly. Worth doing? That's your call.

I don't understand how the big black stopcock will get in the way of a drawer, when the white sink waste plumbing seems to stick out even further? But, if it does interfere with your proposed drawer, then I would ABSOLUTELY change the pipework layout, and not cut into or modify the drawer.

To improve the layout using the existing parts looks to be as simple as; disconnect the top of the stopcock, and rotate it clockwise until it is horizontal, and just above the unit's base. At it's far end then just an elbow upwards, around 6" of vertical pipe, and a further elbow to send the supply horizontally backwards until it joins the previous copper pipe, but now tight to that 'tee'. Make sense?

If doing this, then - yes - I'd probably fit a smaller stopcock too, since what S62 has seemingly identified as a meter connection surely won't be needed.

But I WOULD stick with plastic, especially if it's a quarter-turn off jobbie. Much faster to shut off the supply when needed, and much less likely to seize open.

Bendy_House

Then have a hardboard back panel cut to fit over everything, EXCEPT the actual stopcock - you need access to that at all times.

Section62

Bendy_House said:

If doing this, then - yes - I'd probably fit a smaller stopcock too, since what S62 has seemingly identified as a meter connection surely won't be needed.

I'd keep an open mind to the possibility of local rules requiring the provision of a meter port there (whether needed or not)

Bendy_House

Fair point - and just no need to replace it either.

FreeBear

Bendy_House said:  I don't understand how the big black stopcock will get in the way of a drawer, when the white sink waste plumbing seems to stick out even further? But, if it does interfere with your proposed drawer, then I would ABSOLUTELY change the pipework layout, and not cut into or modify the drawer.

One normally has a cupboard under a sink with a false panel where a draw would be. That said, you can get draw units designed to go under sinks with a cutout for the waste pipe - Seems to be a waste of money to me, as each kitchen is different...

Bendy_House said:

Then have a hardboard back panel cut to fit over everything, EXCEPT the actual stopcock - you need access to that at all times.

If a new unit is going in that space, route a new slot in the side panels & base board before fitting a back panel - This will give a much neater finish than fixing blocks of wood to the sides & screwing a panel to them.

warwick2001

Bendy_House said:

Hi Warwick.

Yes, it's a bit untidy, but not unusually so for a layout that's been changed over time, and yours has been given a completely new supply. 

So, can it be tidied? Certainly. Worth doing? That's your call.

I don't understand how the big black stopcock will get in the way of a drawer, when the white sink waste plumbing seems to stick out even further? But, if it does interfere with your proposed drawer, then I would ABSOLUTELY change the pipework layout, and not cut into or modify the drawer.

To improve the layout using the existing parts looks to be as simple as; disconnect the top of the stopcock, and rotate it clockwise until it is horizontal, and just above the unit's base. At it's far end then just an elbow upwards, around 6" of vertical pipe, and a further elbow to send the supply horizontally backwards until it joins the previous copper pipe, but now tight to that 'tee'. Make sense?

If doing this, then - yes - I'd probably fit a smaller stopcock too, since what S62 has seemingly identified as a meter connection surely won't be needed.

But I WOULD stick with plastic, especially if it's a quarter-turn off jobbie. Much faster to shut off the supply when needed, and much less likely to seize open.

Sorry, didn't add an important point, the sink is not staying where it is, so the white waste pipes won't be there anymore, they're getting removed completely.

The reason to swap out the big ole plastic stopcock for a wee brass tap was to either:

1. Avoid having to hack the new drawer unit, it could fit straight in if all the pipework etc is flush to the wall , and

2. Allow us to have the flexibility of putting a washing machine or dishwasher there. At the moment, cos the way the pipework/stopcock sticks out, all the appliances stick out about 6 inch from the wall, and hence stick out from under the worktop. 

So, my original question, is it a possible to swap out the stopcock, or are there regs/common practice to use the newer plastic ones? Obviously we would prefer a smaller unit, but if we need to keep the plastic unit, we'll work around it. One plumber who looked at it said it can be removed no problem, but the one we choose to do the work has said it shouldn't be replaced.