Express Bi-fold doors

rentalforever

We had sliding doors installed from Express Bi-fold and this post is to highlight lessons learned from dealing with them.

Apparently it’s ok for very expensive doors to have defects like the dent in the picture because you can’t see them from 3 metres away internally or 5 metres if the issue is externally facing. Those are some very generous distances they’ve given themselves.

We’re only a few weeks in and the doors function well. But if cosmetic issues like these bother you, you’ll need to make sure you’re available on the day of install to check over each visible part before they fit them. If you’re relying on them to willingly come back post-install to fix the issues after the initial install, you can forget it.

The first response you’ll get is a defensive one, suggesting it’s everyone else’s fault apart from themselves. They operate on the basis that everything is perfect and nothing ever gets damaged during manufacturing, delivery or install. But if you fight hard enough, you have photographic evidence from the day and you reported it on the day of install, then you might be in with a chance for them to come back and do a re-spray on scratches.

If it’s a dent, then as I said above they won’t fix it unless it’s visible from a certain distance. Then you’re relying on the lighting conditions, the quality of their eyesight and how willing they are with seeing the issue to accept the defect. But even if they are willing to accept the issue, do you really want them to be dismantling the doors after they installed it and risk further damage? That’s why I suggest a detailed inspection during install before the visible pieces get fitted.

plumb1_2

Hope you paid by CC

Doozergirl

I've used them for around five years, on many jobs, including our own home.   Have used a couple of other firms lately because of extended lead times and returned to them again because it turns out that they're the ones being honest.  

In terms of price, quality and reliability, they're second to none. The surveyors are excellent, they know exactly what they're doing and will discuss the build in detail and document requirements.   We've not had a singular issue that hasn't been addressed.  

We sign off on the day for quality of install.  It makes nothing but sense if you're spending thousands of pounds that someone is there to at least check everything over with the fitters at the end of the day. 

As a time-served project manager, the nature of building sites is such that things can be and are damaged once one set of subbies have gone.  I can see that the house is still a building site.  

How was no one there to sign off? 

When was installation? 

rentalforever

Doozergirl said:

I've used them for around five years, on many jobs, including our own home.   Have used a couple of other firms lately because of extended lead times and returned to them again because it turns out that they're the ones being honest.  

In terms of price, quality and reliability, they're second to none. The surveyors are excellent, they know exactly what they're doing and will discuss the build in detail and document requirements.   We've not had a singular issue that hasn't been addressed.  

We sign off on the day for quality of install.  It makes nothing but sense if you're spending thousands of pounds that someone is there to at least check everything over with the fitters at the end of the day. 

As a time-served project manager, the nature of building sites is such that things can be and are damaged once one set of subbies have gone.  I can see that the house is still a building site.  

How was no one there to sign off? 

When was installation? 

It took two attempts to get our install done. On the first attempt they thought they could manage with two people. The second time round there were five or six of them. Beats me how they got that wrong - it’s not like the surveyor didn’t see the exact route and location of the install.

I was there on the day of install and the mechanics and general visual checks were done. The issues we later identified were never going to be spotted until a thorough cleaning of the frame was done. Adhesive and dust was left on the frames which I didn’t think was unreasonable at the time but impossible to tell what was damage and what was dirt until a thorough clean. The installers were never going to wait for that. I did clean the frames and thus detect the issues and reported them within a couple of hours of the installers leaving. No other work had taken place and no other trades present. Crikey, you sound like them! Are you sure you don’t work for them?

The house at that point wasn’t a building a site, not quite sure where you’re getting that from.

Doozergirl

No, I don't work for them.  I've said that I am a satisfied customer.  They wouldn't be in business if they didn't have any of those.  I think it will be quite clear from over 30k posts to read that I don't work for them.  If you're here to 'highlight the lessons learned from dealing with them', I'm also allowed to say that what you're experiencing is not a normal installation and that overall they're one of the best I have dealt with.  

If I sound like them it's because I've been on building sites for 20 years and I know what goes wrong and why certain processes are put in place.  One of those things is checking everything you can before people leave, because subbies absolutely do ruin other people's work and they're never vocal about it.  Doors are particularly vulnerable because they go in early and then everyone else brings bulky, long or heavy materials through.   

If you are saving money by not employing someone like me to be an overall contractor to project manager and take paid responsibility for quality, then checking diligently becomes your role.  If it isn't something you're used to, then it's not always going to work this out until it's too late and hindsight is perfect.  There was a form that you've signed off to say you're happy so you're on the back foot somewhat.  
 

What you're describing doesn't sound like a usual installation for them.  They clean down the windows for sign off and I've not been left with dirty windows.
  

However, if you've reported it within a couple of hours, that's not unreasonable.  

I'm saying that your house was a building site because I can see exposed DPM, a boarded but unplastered reveal and what looks like kitchen fit in progress.  

Looking subsequently at your posts, you've had an extension carried out which would make that area nothing but a building site, you've employed separate subbies, you've carried out some DIY, someone has literally just fitted the kitchen floor and you appear to be in the process of snagging... 

NatNat77

I love the two doors they fitted for me in our outbuilding back in April, and I have paid the deposit for our extension doors as well. We are not yet ready for survey as some of the openings aren't yet formed, but they have been great about that too. We are also planning to order some of their windows. 

The quality and look is exactly what I was after and I feel I got what I paid for. The installers were very tidy and professional. The doors didn't get that dirty during install and our garden WAS (and still is 😂) a bit of a building site but they cleaned our doors too, took photos, showed me how to operate them and checked I was happy before they left, and I had to.sign paperwork to that effect. Believe me for what they cost I went over those doors with a fine tooth comb and will do the same when they fit the others, and the installers will not be leaving until I or they report any issues! 

I would therefore agree with Doozergirl that your installation doesn't sound like a typical installation for them, and I suspect we use different branches as well (I've been using Romford). Did they take photos before they left, and have they said anything about the doors being left dirty? I would not be at all happy with a dent like that either but honestly, I can understand why they are being difficult if you were there during installation and didn't flag these issues at the time. Good luck in getting them sorted out, they seem like a company who want their customers to be happy. 

rentalforever

Doozergirl said:

No, I don't work for them.  I've said that I am a satisfied customer.  They wouldn't be in business if they didn't have any of those.  I think it will be quite clear from over 30k posts to read that I don't work for them.  If you're here to 'highlight the lessons learned from dealing with them', I'm also allowed to say that what you're experiencing is not a normal installation and that overall they're one of the best I have dealt with.  

If I sound like them it's because I've been on building sites for 20 years and I know what goes wrong and why certain processes are put in place.  One of those things is checking everything you can before people leave, because subbies absolutely do ruin other people's work and they're never vocal about it.  Doors are particularly vulnerable because they go in early and then everyone else brings bulky, long or heavy materials through.   

If you are saving money by not employing someone like me to be an overall contractor to project manager and take paid responsibility for quality, then checking diligently becomes your role.  If it isn't something you're used to, then it's not always going to work this out until it's too late and hindsight is perfect.  There was a form that you've signed off to say you're happy so you're on the back foot somewhat.  
 

What you're describing doesn't sound like a usual installation for them.  They clean down the windows for sign off and I've not been left with dirty windows.
  

However, if you've reported it within a couple of hours, that's not unreasonable.  

I'm saying that your house was a building site because I can see exposed DPM, a boarded but unplastered reveal and what looks like kitchen fit in progress.  

Looking subsequently at your posts, you've had an extension carried out which would make that area nothing but a building site, you've employed separate subbies, you've carried out some DIY, someone has literally just fitted the kitchen floor and you appear to be in the process of snagging... 

Our door install was towards the end of our build at the recommendation of the building company for the very reason that other trades may end up damaging them. All that was left after the doors were installed was our finished wood flooring and kitchen wall tiling. DPM gets cut after the doors are installed, done by the flooring installers. The window surrounds are boarded but not plastered because the door install would have ruined the plaster work. You don’t want to be cutting finished sections of walls whilst installing the doors. Interesting that you don’t know this? Your take on how I’ve gone about my project, the status and state of it are completely incorrect by the way.

The rest are basically the same lines used by most trades to cover their backs. Signing forms? When is a customer ever given the time to sign it? What does signing a form have to do with the state of the doors - does not signing it suddenly change the quality of the finish?

This install may well not be typical of their other installs, but may I point you to their Trustpilot profile. I had a follow-up visit from Express to re-spray sections of the frame - they refuse to fix the dent though. And do you know what they do after they’ve done the remedial work? They ‘encourage’ you to leave a Trustpilot review by offering a cleaning kit apparently worth £50. I had a look at the page and nearly every review is from a customer that needed remedial work and was willing to leave the review to get the kit. That’s not to say those customers weren’t genuinely happy that the issues got fixed but there’s a lot of reviews and therefore a lot of remedial work. I’ll leave others to form their own views on what this 

rentalforever

NatNat77 said:

I love the two doors they fitted for me in our outbuilding back in April, and I have paid the deposit for our extension doors as well. We are not yet ready for survey as some of the openings aren't yet formed, but they have been great about that too. We are also planning to order some of their windows. 

The quality and look is exactly what I was after and I feel I got what I paid for. The installers were very tidy and professional. The doors didn't get that dirty during install and our garden WAS (and still is 😂) a bit of a building site but they cleaned our doors too, took photos, showed me how to operate them and checked I was happy before they left, and I had to.sign paperwork to that effect. Believe me for what they cost I went over those doors with a fine tooth comb and will do the same when they fit the others, and the installers will not be leaving until I or they report any issues! 

I would therefore agree with Doozergirl that your installation doesn't sound like a typical installation for them, and I suspect we use different branches as well (I've been using Romford). Did they take photos before they left, and have they said anything about the doors being left dirty? I would not be at all happy with a dent like that either but honestly, I can understand why they are being difficult if you were there during installation and didn't flag these issues at the time. Good luck in getting them sorted out, they seem like a company who want their customers to be happy. 

They took two photos - one external and one internal from a distance. They tried to use those photos to disprove my claim that the damage was there on install. Despite best efforts on their part to challenge my claim, I was able to enhance their poorly taken and highly compressed photos to prove that the marks were there at the point of install.

I wasn’t even that upset about the issues because it was 98% of the way there - functionally they work great and in the main they look great too. For me, these were snagging issues and I raised them assuming that they’d address them without any quibble. But what I got back was an incredibly defensive response. That for me instantly and needlessly changed my perception of them.

Would I recommend them to friends, family and neighbours? I wouldn’t outright dismiss them but I would say proceed with caution and have your lawyer onsite on the day.

Doozergirl

Have your lawyer on site on the day?!  It's a lot easier to just take the time to check the thing you've been asked to check so it can be highlighted on the day and fixed with no arguments at all.  Both I and the poster above have been given proper opportunity to check quality and sign off everything. It's a procedure. If we weren't happy then the damage would go onto the form instead of the happy signature; that's common sense.  

If your situation isn't as you've said and your builder has in fact been contracted to do the entire job including hiring and paying Express, then it's your builder's responsibility to leave the job in tip-top condition and they can deal with them.  It should have been them signing off (or not) in that case too. 

I know exactly what I'm doing thank you and you've confirmed what I could see.  At no point have I discussed the order in which things are done, I simply pointed out that damage occurs on building sites, when work is ongoing - which it was/is.  If  you're as rude to them as you like to be to me then I'm not entirely surprised you've had push back from them. 

As for reviews, I've never left them one online, happy customers often don't.  

The lesson is, if you are presented with a form that confirms satisfaction with a job, don't sign it if you aren't happy.  Then this type of argument will never happen.  

benson1980

rentalforever said:

NatNat77 said:

I love the two doors they fitted for me in our outbuilding back in April, and I have paid the deposit for our extension doors as well. We are not yet ready for survey as some of the openings aren't yet formed, but they have been great about that too. We are also planning to order some of their windows. 

The quality and look is exactly what I was after and I feel I got what I paid for. The installers were very tidy and professional. The doors didn't get that dirty during install and our garden WAS (and still is 😂) a bit of a building site but they cleaned our doors too, took photos, showed me how to operate them and checked I was happy before they left, and I had to.sign paperwork to that effect. Believe me for what they cost I went over those doors with a fine tooth comb and will do the same when they fit the others, and the installers will not be leaving until I or they report any issues! 

I would therefore agree with Doozergirl that your installation doesn't sound like a typical installation for them, and I suspect we use different branches as well (I've been using Romford). Did they take photos before they left, and have they said anything about the doors being left dirty? I would not be at all happy with a dent like that either but honestly, I can understand why they are being difficult if you were there during installation and didn't flag these issues at the time. Good luck in getting them sorted out, they seem like a company who want their customers to be happy. 

They took two photos - one external and one internal from a distance. They tried to use those photos to disprove my claim that the damage was there on install. Despite best efforts on their part to challenge my claim, I was able to enhance their poorly taken and highly compressed photos to prove that the marks were there at the point of install.

I wasn’t even that upset about the issues because it was 98% of the way there - functionally they work great and in the main they look great too. For me, these were snagging issues and I raised them assuming that they’d address them without any quibble. But what I got back was an incredibly defensive response. That for me instantly and needlessly changed my perception of them.

Would I recommend them to friends, family and neighbours? I wouldn’t outright dismiss them but I would say proceed with caution and have your lawyer onsite on the day.

I hope you get it resolved, and I'm with you. Easier dealing with these companies if you are accustomed to [building] project management and pitfalls but as a layperson you employ trades expecting a degree of integrity and ability to do a good job- unfortunately experience tells me that is often wishful thinking.

rentalforever

benson1980 said:

rentalforever said:

NatNat77 said:

I love the two doors they fitted for me in our outbuilding back in April, and I have paid the deposit for our extension doors as well. We are not yet ready for survey as some of the openings aren't yet formed, but they have been great about that too. We are also planning to order some of their windows. 

The quality and look is exactly what I was after and I feel I got what I paid for. The installers were very tidy and professional. The doors didn't get that dirty during install and our garden WAS (and still is 😂) a bit of a building site but they cleaned our doors too, took photos, showed me how to operate them and checked I was happy before they left, and I had to.sign paperwork to that effect. Believe me for what they cost I went over those doors with a fine tooth comb and will do the same when they fit the others, and the installers will not be leaving until I or they report any issues! 

I would therefore agree with Doozergirl that your installation doesn't sound like a typical installation for them, and I suspect we use different branches as well (I've been using Romford). Did they take photos before they left, and have they said anything about the doors being left dirty? I would not be at all happy with a dent like that either but honestly, I can understand why they are being difficult if you were there during installation and didn't flag these issues at the time. Good luck in getting them sorted out, they seem like a company who want their customers to be happy. 

They took two photos - one external and one internal from a distance. They tried to use those photos to disprove my claim that the damage was there on install. Despite best efforts on their part to challenge my claim, I was able to enhance their poorly taken and highly compressed photos to prove that the marks were there at the point of install.

I wasn’t even that upset about the issues because it was 98% of the way there - functionally they work great and in the main they look great too. For me, these were snagging issues and I raised them assuming that they’d address them without any quibble. But what I got back was an incredibly defensive response. That for me instantly and needlessly changed my perception of them.

Would I recommend them to friends, family and neighbours? I wouldn’t outright dismiss them but I would say proceed with caution and have your lawyer onsite on the day.

I hope you get it resolved, and I'm with you. Easier dealing with these companies if you are accustomed to [building] project management and pitfalls but as a layperson you employ trades expecting a degree of integrity and ability to do a good job- unfortunately experience tells me that is often wishful thinking.

Roll of the dice I guess. Some of it is down to the individuals on the day but other behaviours are more systemic.

Why do they think it’s a good idea to bribe people for positive TrustPilot reviews? Why did the guy who came back to do the re-spray need to say that the TrustPilot review would be specifically for him and his visit and not for the entire install? Manipulative tactics like that don’t work on me, it’s not like TrustPilot is some new concept. So I find this sort of thing bordering on fraudulent. It’s disappointing and as I said completely unnecessary. Do not understand why they need to resort to this sort of behaviour.