Smart Meters

inspectorperez

EssexHebridean said:

Yes - as a general rule I’d always view anything in the Daily Fail as almost certainly being utter fearmongering nonsense until proved otherwise.  You only have e to look at how often their articles are quoted by conspiracy theorists to begin to get the measure of them! 

On a slightly different note, and unrelated to any specific comments on the thread - have any other regular posters here noticed that we do seem to have had a bit of an upsurge in the more vociferous of the anti smart meter brigade here over the past little while?

"Sir Iain, one of five British MPs singled out for sanctions by Beijing last year, told The Mail on Sunday that the PM should first halt the installation of the meters, made by Kaifa Technology UK, and then potentially replace the ones already installed. He said ‘all smart meters feature a switch that can be used to remotely turn off power’, which in the wrong hands ‘could be abused to inflict mass blackouts and damage the National Grid’."

Are you saying that Sir Iain Duncan Smith is wrong or has been misquoted by the DM?

The_Green_Hornet

inspectorperez said:

EssexHebridean said:

Yes - as a general rule I’d always view anything in the Daily Fail as almost certainly being utter fearmongering nonsense until proved otherwise.  You only have e to look at how often their articles are quoted by conspiracy theorists to begin to get the measure of them! 

On a slightly different note, and unrelated to any specific comments on the thread - have any other regular posters here noticed that we do seem to have had a bit of an upsurge in the more vociferous of the anti smart meter brigade here over the past little while?

"Sir Iain, one of five British MPs singled out for sanctions by Beijing last year, told The Mail on Sunday that the PM should first halt the installation of the meters, made by Kaifa Technology UK, and then potentially replace the ones already installed. He said ‘all smart meters feature a switch that can be used to remotely turn off power’, which in the wrong hands ‘could be abused to inflict mass blackouts and damage the National Grid’."

Are you saying that Sir Iain Duncan Smith is wrong or has been misquoted by the DM?

I suppose it all depends on where IDS got his information from as I very much doubt he is a technology expert.

Find that out and then you can judge whether there is a security issue or not.

EssexHebridean

inspectorperez said:

EssexHebridean said:

Yes - as a general rule I’d always view anything in the Daily Fail as almost certainly being utter fearmongering nonsense until proved otherwise.  You only have e to look at how often their articles are quoted by conspiracy theorists to begin to get the measure of them! 

On a slightly different note, and unrelated to any specific comments on the thread - have any other regular posters here noticed that we do seem to have had a bit of an upsurge in the more vociferous of the anti smart meter brigade here over the past little while?

"Sir Iain, one of five British MPs singled out for sanctions by Beijing last year, told The Mail on Sunday that the PM should first halt the installation of the meters, made by Kaifa Technology UK, and then potentially replace the ones already installed. He said ‘all smart meters feature a switch that can be used to remotely turn off power’, which in the wrong hands ‘could be abused to inflict mass blackouts and damage the National Grid’."

Are you saying that Sir Iain Duncan Smith is wrong or has been misquoted by the DM?

I have absolutely no idea - although I don't believe he's a subject matter expert? Do I think that the DM sometimes mis-quote people or at the least use selective quoting to better back up their standpoint? Absolutely they do - I'd be in no doubt about that in the same way that I would pretty much guarantee that all media outlets do a variation of this at times. The DM do enjoy riling up a certain demographic though, and they are VERY good at knowing what triggers that demographic to panic.

Think of it this way - my kitchen contains a selection of large knives that in the wrong hands could absolutely be used to murder multiple people. Do I intend to let those knives into the wrong hands? No. Do I think it's likely that those knives will get into the wrong hands? No again. Therefore - the knives themselves carry an element of perceived danger simply by existing - however, the risk associated with them is really remarkably low, due to the security I put in place around them. 

brewerdave

To confuse the issue of Kaifa meters - I have just had a SMETS2 leccy meter installed, which is labelled as Honeywell AS302P but also has Kaifa on the frontplate .I assume its a Honeywell design manufactured in China ?

inspectorperez

The_Green_Hornet said:

inspectorperez said:

EssexHebridean said:

Yes - as a general rule I’d always view anything in the Daily Fail as almost certainly being utter fearmongering nonsense until proved otherwise.  You only have e to look at how often their articles are quoted by conspiracy theorists to begin to get the measure of them! 

On a slightly different note, and unrelated to any specific comments on the thread - have any other regular posters here noticed that we do seem to have had a bit of an upsurge in the more vociferous of the anti smart meter brigade here over the past little while?

"Sir Iain, one of five British MPs singled out for sanctions by Beijing last year, told The Mail on Sunday that the PM should first halt the installation of the meters, made by Kaifa Technology UK, and then potentially replace the ones already installed. He said ‘all smart meters feature a switch that can be used to remotely turn off power’, which in the wrong hands ‘could be abused to inflict mass blackouts and damage the National Grid’."

Are you saying that Sir Iain Duncan Smith is wrong or has been misquoted by the DM?

I suppose it all depends on where IDS got his information from as I very much doubt he is a technology expert.

Find that out and then you can judge whether there is a security issue or not.

EssexHebridean said:

inspectorperez said:

EssexHebridean said:

Yes - as a general rule I’d always view anything in the Daily Fail as almost certainly being utter fearmongering nonsense until proved otherwise.  You only have e to look at how often their articles are quoted by conspiracy theorists to begin to get the measure of them! 

On a slightly different note, and unrelated to any specific comments on the thread - have any other regular posters here noticed that we do seem to have had a bit of an upsurge in the more vociferous of the anti smart meter brigade here over the past little while?

"Sir Iain, one of five British MPs singled out for sanctions by Beijing last year, told The Mail on Sunday that the PM should first halt the installation of the meters, made by Kaifa Technology UK, and then potentially replace the ones already installed. He said ‘all smart meters feature a switch that can be used to remotely turn off power’, which in the wrong hands ‘could be abused to inflict mass blackouts and damage the National Grid’."

Are you saying that Sir Iain Duncan Smith is wrong or has been misquoted by the DM?

I have absolutely no idea - although I don't believe he's a subject matter expert? Do I think that the DM sometimes mis-quote people or at the least use selective quoting to better back up their standpoint? Absolutely they do - I'd be in no doubt about that in the same way that I would pretty much guarantee that all media outlets do a variation of this at times. The DM do enjoy riling up a certain demographic though, and they are VERY good at knowing what triggers that demographic to panic.

Think of it this way - my kitchen contains a selection of large knives that in the wrong hands could absolutely be used to murder multiple people. Do I intend to let those knives into the wrong hands? No. Do I think it's likely that those knives will get into the wrong hands? No again. Therefore - the knives themselves carry an element of perceived danger simply by existing - however, the risk associated with them is really remarkably low, due to the security I put in place around them. 

TBH, I would have expected Smart Energy GB or some industry spokesperson to issue a statement denouncing or challenging Sir Iain's words and/or the context of the DM article. Maybe this will happen in due course.

As I said in an earlier post, I have a completely open mind on this subject, but I do have some difficulty in believing that a former leader of a mainstream political party would reiterrate briefings such as this without being satisfied as to their accuracy.

eastcorkram

brewerdave said:

To confuse the issue of Kaifa meters - I have just had a SMETS2 leccy meter installed, which is labelled as Honeywell AS302P but also has Kaifa on the frontplate .I assume its a Honeywell design manufactured in China ?

Can't help thinking it might be beneficial if everyone was having the same meters fitted. 
When people talk about pressing button 6 or 9, when my fairly recently installed meter  (Dec 2021) only has two buttons, and even those aren't numbered .

QrizB

brewerdave said:

To confuse the issue of Kaifa meters - I have just had a SMETS2 leccy meter installed, which is labelled as Honeywell AS302P but also has Kaifa on the frontplate .I assume its a Honeywell design manufactured in China ?

Are both the designations on the same physical item?

It's not uncommon to have a smart electricity meter from one manufacturer, and (attashed to the top of it) a comms hub from another manufacturer.

eastcorkram said:

Can't help thinking it might be beneficial if everyone was having the same meters fitted.

As @[Deleted User] often points out, this is the case in France(?) where there is a single government-mandated smart meter design.

The UK government decided to leave the choice to industry, which has resulted in a huge proliferation of smart meter designs in use and a growing challenge in maintaining configuration control.

[Deleted User]

My limited understanding is that the concern relating to Chinese-sourced items such as Huawei modems and Kaifa smart meters is that they may have a built in ‘back door’ which a malign actor could exploit.

UK smart meters do not connect to the internet so to orchestrate a mass meter disconnection*, the Chinese would have to hack either the supplier or the DCC’s systems. Even if this was possible, all smart meters have built in bespoke layered security. 

https://www.ncsc.gov.uk/information/the-smart-security-behind-the-gb-smart-metering-system

* Whilst consumers might be concerned about their individual supply being disconnected, the mass disconnection of 000s of smart meters could cause considerable damage to the Grid.

The_Green_Hornet

inspectorperez said:

The_Green_Hornet said:

inspectorperez said:

EssexHebridean said:

Yes - as a general rule I’d always view anything in the Daily Fail as almost certainly being utter fearmongering nonsense until proved otherwise.  You only have e to look at how often their articles are quoted by conspiracy theorists to begin to get the measure of them! 

On a slightly different note, and unrelated to any specific comments on the thread - have any other regular posters here noticed that we do seem to have had a bit of an upsurge in the more vociferous of the anti smart meter brigade here over the past little while?

"Sir Iain, one of five British MPs singled out for sanctions by Beijing last year, told The Mail on Sunday that the PM should first halt the installation of the meters, made by Kaifa Technology UK, and then potentially replace the ones already installed. He said ‘all smart meters feature a switch that can be used to remotely turn off power’, which in the wrong hands ‘could be abused to inflict mass blackouts and damage the National Grid’."

Are you saying that Sir Iain Duncan Smith is wrong or has been misquoted by the DM?

I suppose it all depends on where IDS got his information from as I very much doubt he is a technology expert.

Find that out and then you can judge whether there is a security issue or not.

EssexHebridean said:

inspectorperez said:

EssexHebridean said:

Yes - as a general rule I’d always view anything in the Daily Fail as almost certainly being utter fearmongering nonsense until proved otherwise.  You only have e to look at how often their articles are quoted by conspiracy theorists to begin to get the measure of them! 

On a slightly different note, and unrelated to any specific comments on the thread - have any other regular posters here noticed that we do seem to have had a bit of an upsurge in the more vociferous of the anti smart meter brigade here over the past little while?

"Sir Iain, one of five British MPs singled out for sanctions by Beijing last year, told The Mail on Sunday that the PM should first halt the installation of the meters, made by Kaifa Technology UK, and then potentially replace the ones already installed. He said ‘all smart meters feature a switch that can be used to remotely turn off power’, which in the wrong hands ‘could be abused to inflict mass blackouts and damage the National Grid’."

Are you saying that Sir Iain Duncan Smith is wrong or has been misquoted by the DM?

I have absolutely no idea - although I don't believe he's a subject matter expert? Do I think that the DM sometimes mis-quote people or at the least use selective quoting to better back up their standpoint? Absolutely they do - I'd be in no doubt about that in the same way that I would pretty much guarantee that all media outlets do a variation of this at times. The DM do enjoy riling up a certain demographic though, and they are VERY good at knowing what triggers that demographic to panic.

Think of it this way - my kitchen contains a selection of large knives that in the wrong hands could absolutely be used to murder multiple people. Do I intend to let those knives into the wrong hands? No. Do I think it's likely that those knives will get into the wrong hands? No again. Therefore - the knives themselves carry an element of perceived danger simply by existing - however, the risk associated with them is really remarkably low, due to the security I put in place around them. 

TBH, I would have expected Smart Energy GB or some industry spokesperson to issue a statement denouncing or challenging Sir Iain's words and/or the context of the DM article. Maybe this will happen in due course.

As I said in an earlier post, I have a completely open mind on this subject, but I do have some difficulty in believing that a former leader of a mainstream political party would reiterrate briefings such as this without being satisfied as to their accuracy.

I very much doubt Smart Energy GB bother trawling the tabloids to debunk stories about smart meters and your belief in politicians and accuracy is definitely greater than mine.

As I say, find the original source of the supposed security threat and then make your own judgement.

grn99

The_Green_Hornet said:

inspectorperez said:

The_Green_Hornet said:

inspectorperez said:

EssexHebridean said:

Yes - as a general rule I’d always view anything in the Daily Fail as almost certainly being utter fearmongering nonsense until proved otherwise.  You only have e to look at how often their articles are quoted by conspiracy theorists to begin to get the measure of them! 

On a slightly different note, and unrelated to any specific comments on the thread - have any other regular posters here noticed that we do seem to have had a bit of an upsurge in the more vociferous of the anti smart meter brigade here over the past little while?

"Sir Iain, one of five British MPs singled out for sanctions by Beijing last year, told The Mail on Sunday that the PM should first halt the installation of the meters, made by Kaifa Technology UK, and then potentially replace the ones already installed. He said ‘all smart meters feature a switch that can be used to remotely turn off power’, which in the wrong hands ‘could be abused to inflict mass blackouts and damage the National Grid’."

Are you saying that Sir Iain Duncan Smith is wrong or has been misquoted by the DM?

I suppose it all depends on where IDS got his information from as I very much doubt he is a technology expert.

Find that out and then you can judge whether there is a security issue or not.

EssexHebridean said:

inspectorperez said:

EssexHebridean said:

Yes - as a general rule I’d always view anything in the Daily Fail as almost certainly being utter fearmongering nonsense until proved otherwise.  You only have e to look at how often their articles are quoted by conspiracy theorists to begin to get the measure of them! 

On a slightly different note, and unrelated to any specific comments on the thread - have any other regular posters here noticed that we do seem to have had a bit of an upsurge in the more vociferous of the anti smart meter brigade here over the past little while?

"Sir Iain, one of five British MPs singled out for sanctions by Beijing last year, told The Mail on Sunday that the PM should first halt the installation of the meters, made by Kaifa Technology UK, and then potentially replace the ones already installed. He said ‘all smart meters feature a switch that can be used to remotely turn off power’, which in the wrong hands ‘could be abused to inflict mass blackouts and damage the National Grid’."

Are you saying that Sir Iain Duncan Smith is wrong or has been misquoted by the DM?

I have absolutely no idea - although I don't believe he's a subject matter expert? Do I think that the DM sometimes mis-quote people or at the least use selective quoting to better back up their standpoint? Absolutely they do - I'd be in no doubt about that in the same way that I would pretty much guarantee that all media outlets do a variation of this at times. The DM do enjoy riling up a certain demographic though, and they are VERY good at knowing what triggers that demographic to panic.

Think of it this way - my kitchen contains a selection of large knives that in the wrong hands could absolutely be used to murder multiple people. Do I intend to let those knives into the wrong hands? No. Do I think it's likely that those knives will get into the wrong hands? No again. Therefore - the knives themselves carry an element of perceived danger simply by existing - however, the risk associated with them is really remarkably low, due to the security I put in place around them. 

TBH, I would have expected Smart Energy GB or some industry spokesperson to issue a statement denouncing or challenging Sir Iain's words and/or the context of the DM article. Maybe this will happen in due course.

As I said in an earlier post, I have a completely open mind on this subject, but I do have some difficulty in believing that a former leader of a mainstream political party would reiterrate briefings such as this without being satisfied as to their accuracy.

I very much doubt Smart Energy GB bother trawling the tabloids to debunk stories about smart meters and your belief in politicians and accuracy is definitely greater than mine.

As I say, find the original source of the supposed security threat and then make your own judgement.

The_Green_Hornet said:

inspectorperez said:

The_Green_Hornet said:

inspectorperez said:

EssexHebridean said:

Yes - as a general rule I’d always view anything in the Daily Fail as almost certainly being utter fearmongering nonsense until proved otherwise.  You only have e to look at how often their articles are quoted by conspiracy theorists to begin to get the measure of them! 

On a slightly different note, and unrelated to any specific comments on the thread - have any other regular posters here noticed that we do seem to have had a bit of an upsurge in the more vociferous of the anti smart meter brigade here over the past little while?

"Sir Iain, one of five British MPs singled out for sanctions by Beijing last year, told The Mail on Sunday that the PM should first halt the installation of the meters, made by Kaifa Technology UK, and then potentially replace the ones already installed. He said ‘all smart meters feature a switch that can be used to remotely turn off power’, which in the wrong hands ‘could be abused to inflict mass blackouts and damage the National Grid’."

Are you saying that Sir Iain Duncan Smith is wrong or has been misquoted by the DM?

I suppose it all depends on where IDS got his information from as I very much doubt he is a technology expert.

Find that out and then you can judge whether there is a security issue or not.

EssexHebridean said:

inspectorperez said:

EssexHebridean said:

Yes - as a general rule I’d always view anything in the Daily Fail as almost certainly being utter fearmongering nonsense until proved otherwise.  You only have e to look at how often their articles are quoted by conspiracy theorists to begin to get the measure of them! 

On a slightly different note, and unrelated to any specific comments on the thread - have any other regular posters here noticed that we do seem to have had a bit of an upsurge in the more vociferous of the anti smart meter brigade here over the past little while?

"Sir Iain, one of five British MPs singled out for sanctions by Beijing last year, told The Mail on Sunday that the PM should first halt the installation of the meters, made by Kaifa Technology UK, and then potentially replace the ones already installed. He said ‘all smart meters feature a switch that can be used to remotely turn off power’, which in the wrong hands ‘could be abused to inflict mass blackouts and damage the National Grid’."

Are you saying that Sir Iain Duncan Smith is wrong or has been misquoted by the DM?

I have absolutely no idea - although I don't believe he's a subject matter expert? Do I think that the DM sometimes mis-quote people or at the least use selective quoting to better back up their standpoint? Absolutely they do - I'd be in no doubt about that in the same way that I would pretty much guarantee that all media outlets do a variation of this at times. The DM do enjoy riling up a certain demographic though, and they are VERY good at knowing what triggers that demographic to panic.

Think of it this way - my kitchen contains a selection of large knives that in the wrong hands could absolutely be used to murder multiple people. Do I intend to let those knives into the wrong hands? No. Do I think it's likely that those knives will get into the wrong hands? No again. Therefore - the knives themselves carry an element of perceived danger simply by existing - however, the risk associated with them is really remarkably low, due to the security I put in place around them. 

TBH, I would have expected Smart Energy GB or some industry spokesperson to issue a statement denouncing or challenging Sir Iain's words and/or the context of the DM article. Maybe this will happen in due course.

As I said in an earlier post, I have a completely open mind on this subject, but I do have some difficulty in believing that a former leader of a mainstream political party would reiterrate briefings such as this without being satisfied as to their accuracy.

I very much doubt Smart Energy GB bother trawling the tabloids to debunk stories about smart meters and your belief in politicians and accuracy is definitely greater than mine.

As I say, find the original source of the supposed security threat and then make your own judgement.

Given the more than likely location of that source, there's no way you are going to be privy to that.