Facebook Purchase Lego

Ergates

RogerBareford said:

If you can't tell it had been glued together why does it matter? Are you planning on taking it apart and putting it back together as that seems a bit of a pointless exercise considering the kits are designed to fit together in only one configuration. Or are you talking about just general Lego pieces being glued together which are not part of a kit?

As mentioned before if you go to somewhere like LegoLand all their models will be glued together so i wouldn't say it was unusual.

I don't think it likely the OP has a case, but in general this isn't true at all.  The whole point of lego is that you can put it together in any shape you like.  There are sets, and those sets will usually come with a single set of instructions on how to assemble the thing pictured on the front (some come with multiple different things you can build), but the idea that that is the *only* way to use the pieces in the box just isn't true.

It's not like a puzzle, where there is only one correct configuration and you couldn't use pieces from one puzzle in a different one.  And even then - would you buy a puzzle that someone had assembled and then glued to a backing board? 

Legoland (etc) glue their large models together because they're meant to be permanent fixtures for display.

Ergates

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Ath_Wat said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

aimeeabbie said:

Yes a private sale

It really depends upon what the advert said and what the seller said in any messages.

My understanding is that for a private sale the goods should match the description but the seller doesn't have any obligation to mention faults. 

There's no harm in sending the letter but before spending money on small claims you'd need to consider whether you actually have a claim.

If the seller mentioned the condition in a positive light then that may give you a base for the claim, as an example the average Lego fanatic wouldn't consider glued together bricks to be "very good condition" but of course it's very subjective and the person deciding the case may view any mention of condition differently. 

Can you post a copy of the ad and any messages from the seller? 

Does a statement like "good condition" in an advert/message on Facebook matter if that is essentially just an invitation to "come round my house, open the boxes, have a look and buy it if you like it"?    For example if a chair is described as in good condition and you go round and it has three legs, surely you can't then say you'll buy it, pay for it and later go to court on the basis that it's not in good condition?

I think there was a concept of acceptance under the Sale of Goods Act so perhaps you wouldn't be able to complain a chair only has 3 legs as it should be obvious (might also come under mitigating losses as well) but, purely as an example, if the chair had a rotten leg and broke a hour after getting home that may not be obvious up inspection when buying and also not meet the description if the chair was described as "like new".

I don't think people should expect Lego to be glued together as the main aspect of the toy is you can take it apart and do as you wish with the pieces. Other posters mentioned places like Legoland doing this but there's an obvious reason for that where as the average person playing with Lego, or even adults collecting and/or displaying it, wouldn't glue it together so the wording of the advert might come into play if it said something about the condition. 

I think for that argument to work you'd have to show that the seller would reasonably know that a) the pieces were glued together and b) that this wouldn't be acceptable.  If the seller was a "big" collector and/or was someone who bought and sold lego as a (probably undeclared) side business then you *might* be able to support that.  If, however, it was just someone who had some kits their kids no longer played with, then it would be a lot harder - would someone who wasn't "into" lego know that gluing pieces together was bad?  Something like "Good condition" could just as easily mean: all the parts and present and none of them are broken or badly scuffed.

I also don't think "worthless" is a tenable argument - unless the sets were specifically sold for use as parts and/or for resale.  They're still usable as part of the set itself which must have some value.

sheramber

i thought a private sale was a case of  'buyer beware'.

lincroft1710

sheramber said:

i thought a private sale was a case of  'buyer beware'.

Unless the item was "Significantly Not As Described", in which case the buyer will have some rights against the seller
 

pinkshoes

sheramber said:

i thought a private sale was a case of  'buyer beware'.

It still needs to be as described though.

The seller has since admitted that they knew some of the sets were glued together, and this is absolutely something that should have been mentioned in the advert and would not have been obvious at the point of sale. 

When buying Lego, you generally check if the pieces are branded Lego or fake. 

I think the OP has a reasonable chance of succeeding with a court threat, but a good starting point would be insisting on a full refund.

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

Ergates said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Ath_Wat said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

aimeeabbie said:

Yes a private sale

It really depends upon what the advert said and what the seller said in any messages.

My understanding is that for a private sale the goods should match the description but the seller doesn't have any obligation to mention faults. 

There's no harm in sending the letter but before spending money on small claims you'd need to consider whether you actually have a claim.

If the seller mentioned the condition in a positive light then that may give you a base for the claim, as an example the average Lego fanatic wouldn't consider glued together bricks to be "very good condition" but of course it's very subjective and the person deciding the case may view any mention of condition differently. 

Can you post a copy of the ad and any messages from the seller? 

Does a statement like "good condition" in an advert/message on Facebook matter if that is essentially just an invitation to "come round my house, open the boxes, have a look and buy it if you like it"?    For example if a chair is described as in good condition and you go round and it has three legs, surely you can't then say you'll buy it, pay for it and later go to court on the basis that it's not in good condition?

I think there was a concept of acceptance under the Sale of Goods Act so perhaps you wouldn't be able to complain a chair only has 3 legs as it should be obvious (might also come under mitigating losses as well) but, purely as an example, if the chair had a rotten leg and broke a hour after getting home that may not be obvious up inspection when buying and also not meet the description if the chair was described as "like new".

I don't think people should expect Lego to be glued together as the main aspect of the toy is you can take it apart and do as you wish with the pieces. Other posters mentioned places like Legoland doing this but there's an obvious reason for that where as the average person playing with Lego, or even adults collecting and/or displaying it, wouldn't glue it together so the wording of the advert might come into play if it said something about the condition. 

I think for that argument to work you'd have to show that the seller would reasonably know that a) the pieces were glued together and b) that this wouldn't be acceptable.  If the seller was a "big" collector and/or was someone who bought and sold lego as a (probably undeclared) side business then you *might* be able to support that.  If, however, it was just someone who had some kits their kids no longer played with, then it would be a lot harder - would someone who wasn't "into" lego know that gluing pieces together was bad?  Something like "Good condition" could just as easily mean: all the parts and present and none of them are broken or badly scuffed.

I also don't think "worthless" is a tenable argument - unless the sets were specifically sold for use as parts and/or for resale.  They're still usable as part of the set itself which must have some value.

I completely agree the OP doesn't stand much of a chance, it would be interesting to see the content of the ad for clarity. 

400ixl

pinkshoes said:

sheramber said:

i thought a private sale was a case of  'buyer beware'.

It still needs to be as described though.

The seller has since admitted that they knew some of the sets were glued together, and this is absolutely something that should have been mentioned in the advert and would not have been obvious at the point of sale. 

When buying Lego, you generally check if the pieces are branded Lego or fake. 

I think the OP has a reasonable chance of succeeding with a court threat, but a good starting point would be insisting on a full refund.

I'm not sure that it would be straight forward and you could argue either way. The opposite view to yours could be:

The buyer here was the expert. The seller had some lego to sell, they were possibly not an expert in whether some of it being glued together was a major factor in its value. If the buyer knew this was a major consideration then they should have asked the question or checked when given the opportunity to inspect before purchase. The seller would then be obliged to answer truthfully.

Sometimes as a seller you don't know what is relevant information and if you don't know you don't know. If however it could be shown that the seller was aware and deliberately hid that information, then that is a different matter, but how do you prove that?

There is a moral question that once made aware as the seller, do you refund and re-advertise with the new information, or take the view the buyer was the expert and had the opportunity to inspect.

Ath_Wat

400ixl said:

pinkshoes said:

sheramber said:

i thought a private sale was a case of  'buyer beware'.

It still needs to be as described though.

The seller has since admitted that they knew some of the sets were glued together, and this is absolutely something that should have been mentioned in the advert and would not have been obvious at the point of sale. 

When buying Lego, you generally check if the pieces are branded Lego or fake. 

I think the OP has a reasonable chance of succeeding with a court threat, but a good starting point would be insisting on a full refund.

The buyer here was the expert. The seller had some lego to sell, they were possibly not an expert in whether some of it being glued together was a major factor in its value. If the buyer knew this was a major consideration then they should have asked the question or checked when given the opportunity to inspect before purchase. The seller would then be obliged to answer truthfully.

See, I wouldn't have tried to sell glued together lego, because to me, a non expert, it's no use - you can't take it apart and play with it, it's broken.

I suspect this isn't what the problem is here though - I suspect it's that for a Lego collector, being glued together is akin to having damaged packaging, it affects its value as a collectable.

As the OP says it was "quite expensive because it contains some large collector sets" then I think an argument could be made  that the seller priced it at a point indicating that they did know its value was in collectability and surely everyone (or at least everyone who has seen Toy Story 2, which ought to be everyone) knows that if you do anything to a collectable toy short of admiring it from a distance through glass, you knock great lumps off the value.

400ixl

The OP said some of the pieces were glued, not all of them, so there is that possibility of not knowing it was an issue (or even remembering without prompting).

It could be argued both ways but you could put more certainty on the expert buyer asking the pertinent questions than a seller knowing what to declare.

It's speculation, and just playing devils advocate really.

Hopefully the OP got a satisfactory outcome.

sheramber

was it sold as a collector's  item or just as a box of lego going cheap?

The chances someone buying it for their child would not be concerned about some bits being glued.