Economy 7 hours - does anybody actually know for sure??

Sparks3000

I live near Canterbury in Kent.    I have an Economy 7 smart meter which was installed by E.D.F. about four years ago.    I am currently  ( reluctantly )  with Shell Energy.    I wanted to find out exactly what hours were covered by the night rate.    Shell Energy's website could only tell me that the hours were  'usually'  between x and y,  so I phoned them and asked them specifically what the hours were in my case.    They couldn't tell me,  they said:  I needed to phone my local distributor  ( UK Power Networks ).    The lady from UK Power Networks,  who admitted she was relying on Google for her information,  could also only supply a  'usually between'  answer,  but not a definitive one.    She said that the only people who would be able to supply a definitive answer were the people who actually installed the meter itself  -  i.e. E.D.F.    I phoned E.D.F.,  and was told that the day rate is from 07:30 to 23:30 and from 00:30 to 02:30;   the night rate,  therefore,  is 23:30 to 00:30 and 02:30 to 07:30.    I pointed out that 00:30 to 02:30 hardly seems like  'day',  by any definition.    At first she argued that it was  'the next morning';   however,  when I suggested that if I rang her up at home at 01:00,  her response would most likely be  'why are you ringing me in the middle of the night'  rather than  'why are you ringing me in the middle of the morning',  she saw my point.    She could offer no other explanation for the hours being as she said they were,  but was nevertheless absolutely insistent that this information was correct.

Just out of curiosity,  this afternoon,  I thought I'd try ringing Shell once again to see either whether I got a different answer from the previous ones,  and / or whether they could change my meter so that the hours were a straightforward seven-hour period  ( e.g. 00:30  -  07:30 ).    The lady I spoke to  ( bearing in mind that another operator for the same company yesterday could not answer the question at all except with a  'usually between'  answer )  said that the night-rate hours for my meter were 00:30 - 07:30 already.    I asked  ( as I had done with the lady from E.D.F. yesterday )  whether she was absolutely,  100%,  stake-your-dog's-life-on-it certain.    She said she was.    Fortunately for the canine pet of one or other of the ladies in question,  I am not someone who would ever wish or do harm to any animal.

That's the story so far.    I have no more reason to trust or distrust either one of these ladies any more than the other  -  always assuming that one or other is in fact correct.

It can't be this hard,  can it??!    Even looking on this forum,  I've yet to find a single definitive answer to this question  ( and if there is one,  and I've missed it,  my apologies ):  so can anyone tell me how I can absolutely categorically determine what the night-rate hours are for my specific meter??

Alnat1

Can you tell us what meter type you have or perhaps post a pic. There might be a way to tell from the meter and some clever folks on here might know.

[Deleted User]

Hi,

no definitive answer, think you will need to sit up and wait for change over at night, and up early to check again in morning.

stewie_griffin

You’ll never get a definitive answer as switching times are deliberately not exact to prevent excessive surges to the grid. For example my meter should switch to the night rate at midnight but the actual time is 12 minutes past. Having said that your supplier will have visibility of the SSC of your meter, which they can use to look up the times. It sounds like you may have a split E7 meter from the conversation you had with EDF. Ask She’ll what the SSC is for your meter (it’s 4 digits), post it on here and someone will be able to tell you what your night rate hours are. A further complication is that the clocks on meters especially the old mechanical ones are often wrong.

Sparks3000

The lady I spoke to from Shell this afternoon said the SSC code is 0151;   although when I've looked that up as best I can,  there still seem to be two different rates for that code ...?

Sandtree

It will depend how the switching is done, radio or the meter itself and to tell that you need to know which kit you have.

If its the meter itself then the timer can drift over time and so the easy way to definitively tell is to sit up and wait to see what time the second reading/meter kicks in and out. I know when looking online previously there are supposed to be tests the energy company can run to see how far out it is but I know that got nowhere with our company when we were having problems with our night rate seemingly not kicking in for long enough/at the right time. 

Also once you do find out remember that these dont typically adjust for British Summer Time so the time will be an hour different in summer to winter.

Sparks3000

As much as I would hesitate to question an answer from Stewie Griffin ...!!... but it's not the odd twelve minutes here and there that I'm worried about so much.    It's more that if I set the washing machine to come on at,  say,  01:00,  and that in fact falls smack in the middle of the so-called  'day rate',  then I'm not doing myself any favours.

Section62

Sparks3000 said:

so can anyone tell me how I can absolutely categorically determine what the night-rate hours are for my specific meter??

You will come closest to a categoric answer by sitting next to your meter and observing it when it switches.

But you'll need to do that every night as the times may vary by seconds or minutes each day depending on the type of meter.

The rates are colloquially called 'night' and 'day', but also as 'off-peak' and 'peak' or "rate 1" and "rate 2".

If you don't go to bed early and your hours are as suggested then you are quite fortunate - you have the potential get the benefit of cheaper hours both before going to bed and after getting up.  A continuous block of 7 hours makes it harder to get the benefits both morning and evening.

stewie_griffin

I’d take that photo down as from the serial number you can find out your address (if you have access to the right database). SSC 0151 is one of the most common and is 00:30 to 07:30. I’m not sure if that’s all year round though or GMT. 

The meter should display the time somewhere on it. Does this match with the actual time?

Sparks3000

By the by,  our property is configured in such a way that the energy meters are on a wall about thirty yards up the driveway  ( don't ask ).    I'm afraid that with the best will in the world I'm not going to be sitting there all night shining a torch into a meter cupboard  -  and of course it would have to be all night in order to establish that it's not switching back to the day rate at 00:30 etc.
Give or take the odd few minutes either way,  I still can't believe there isn't anyone anywhere who would simply be able to give an accurate answer to the question!

Sparks3000

I didn't realise about the serial number;   I would take the photo down if I knew how to.    I'll have to check whether the meter time is correct or not.    I understand re the BST observation.