Green Energy UK - what's the catch?

Mstty

danco said:

Everyone mentioning Green Energy seems to refer to their Sparkling tariff, but I think the Tide tariff may well turn out cheaper. Of course it depends how much energy you use between 4 and 8 p.m. For me I am on electricity only, and heating is charged through the service charge on my block of flats, so is separate from my electricity bill.

Completely agree @danco but it's very hard to explain to people who it could benefit them.

For us (all electricity) we can geek out on the tide tariff and avoid pretty much any use 4-8pm with some juggling as we work from home and can adjust our lifestyle. On a spreadsheet it comes out for us at a little over 30p kWh and that's setting times conservatively.

For most users Sparkling will suit them best but I have posted about tide infrequently as it muddies the water for most and created more questions than answers.

MWT

t0rt0ise said:

Truss is saying she will remove the green levies on energy bills if she is PM. I'm guessing that your fix would be reduced in that event, but of course they may not reduce it.

It will be interesting to see how this is handled.

The earlier question I answered about a VAT reduction is easy, if the VAT was removed then the bills would have to come down, there would be no choice and no ability to keep the charges at the higher level, changes in the levies is a bit different.

If we consider the last year then suppliers costs have increased considerably, including things like the recovery of the SoLR expenses, but those on fixed tariffs have seen no change in their tariffs, so now if some of those costs go down then I suspect we would see new versions of tariffs released which reflected those changes, but I would not necessarily expect the existing fixed tariffs to change...

wittynamegoeshere

Hopefully the government would be intelligent enough to mandate that all tariffs must be reduced by x%...

But government, intelligent is probably an oxymoron.

The problem, with all fixes including this one, is that we're paying more now to hedge against a rise that at the moment is an unknown figure.  Plus there are all kinds of tweaks that could be made which may or may not affect all tariffs equally.

But I'm happy with the risk, given that I'll be paying 39% extra for only two months during a time of very low usage.  At worst I lose this, as there are no exit penalties.

I did look at the Tide tariff.  If I had storage heaters, a hot water cylinder and/or an electric car I'd have done the maths on it.  But we're all immediate usage electricity, and that 70p unit price between 4pm and 8pm would have been crippling for us, it's almost twice the price.  I definitely wouldn't want to restructure our lifestyles to save a few quid on power, as the off-peak rates are only roughly 10% less than the Sparkling tariff anyway.  You only actually save any decent amount between midnight and 7am.

MWT

wittynamegoeshere said:

Hopefully the government would be intelligent enough to mandate that all tariffs must be reduced by x%...

I don't think that it would be viable or equitable to try and express the impact of the change on an existing fixed tariff as a simple percentage.

I do think that the changes could allow new tariffs to be offered and then it is up to the customers to decide if they want to switch from the tariff they are currently on...

wittynamegoeshere

MWT said:

I do think that the changes could allow new tariffs to be offered and then it is up to the customers to decide if they want to switch from the tariff they are currently on...

Sounds good in theory, not so good if you're one of those on that fix with a £300 exit penalty.  Plus many have volunteered to have already paid extra for their bills to protect themselves for the coming winter, they won't be able to get back this money that would then be wasted.  Effectively they've paid an insurance premium but not got any cover.

Presumably the green levy is added on according to a formula, however complicated it is.  All that needs to be mandated is that the formula is effectively reversed, i.e. they are required to stop adding on whatever they added when they first did the sums.  It would be revenue-neutral to the suppliers so anyone objecting would just be moaning about not getting a free windfall.

QrizB

t0rt0ise said:

Truss is saying she will remove the green levies on energy bills if she is PM. I'm guessing that your fix would be reduced in that event, but of course they may not reduce it.

The "environmental and social obligation" is about £150 a year. Of that figure, the "green levy" is about £90 a year; the rest is the social element, which includes the Warm Home Discount and ECO energy-saving support for low-income households.

Most of the green levy is priced per MWh and so should be included in the unit price, not the standing charge.

MWT

wittynamegoeshere said:

Presumably the green levy is added on according to a formula, however complicated it is.  All that needs to be mandated is that the formula is effectively reversed, i.e. they are required to stop adding on whatever they added when they first did the sums.  It would be revenue-neutral to the suppliers so anyone objecting would just be moaning about not getting a free windfall.

Would you be happy to have the fixed tariff increase because the payment to cover the SoLR increased significantly from April?

Anyway, as QrizB has pointed out, it is a very ineffectual promise and certainly not something to get excited about unfortunately...

michaels

Most of the green projects are on a 'contract for difference' basis and for the last 9 months these has resulted in a reduction in bills not an increase.