Avis car hire problem...

szaferani

Hi everyone,

I'll keep this as succinct as possible despite the long story! I am having a problem getting a refund for a car hire agreement with Avis which wasn't properly fulfilled. 

Would love your thoughts on whether there is any more I can do - the mis-selling part feels very very wrong to me...

We hired a convertible car direct with Avis through their UK booking team to use in the US (San Francisco Airport pick up, Los Angeles Airport drop off). We know with these bookings they we are not guaranteed a particular model of convertible but any convertible, however the car we got when we got to San Francisco Airport was a sporty car but NOT a convertible and they didn't even bother to explain it wasn't on pick up so we took it out of the garage in the hope we could figure out how to put down the roof. When we questioned Avis about this on the phone / at one of their sites a day after pick up we were told they had no convertibles available to replace the car (and admitted they never did!!!) so our only choice would be to return the car. As we were in the US at the time we had no choice but to keep the car (or have the stress of returning, trying to find another company WITH a convertible, get refunds, pay more money out for the new company etc). We were told at this time that we would need to pick the issue up when we returned the non-convertible at the end of our trip.

On returning, the staff in the LA Airport Avis office did not care in the slightest and told us we needed to pick it up with the UK booking / customer care team once we were home. Our experience with the UK booking / customer service team has been the worst; basically a load of empty promises about refunds of at least 50% of the value of the car rental which they did not go on to fulfil - all we wanted / want is our money back. We have always been the ones calling them and were promised updates but never had them, and they just kept blaming it on US Avis teams even though the booking was with them and they are one company.

After about two months we were issued with a refund of $400 without any agreement from us, not even a quarter of the value of the rental we took out, and were provided with a rude email from the company to say that their position was final. We are still $1,500 out of pocket and despite having A car for the trip - we wouldn't have spent so much on the type of car if we knew we weren't going to get it.

We have looked into third party companies who we can escalate the complaint with, however the problem we are finding is that most of the recommended organisations only cover car rentals that take place in the UK or Europe, not those that are booked in the UK but take place elsewhere e.g. the US.

Any help would be appreciated!

Thanks,

Sophie

tightauldgit

I suppose the first thing to consider is what the T&Cs say with regards your booking and what leeway did Avis have to replace your car with something of similar standard but not a convertible?

How much would you have saved had you rented a non-convertible at the time of making the booking? 

Since you had use of a car for the trip my sense is you won't get a full refund 

comeandgo

I don’t think you are entitled to your money back, nobody would get that for you.  You accepted the car, you used the car, what is the price difference between what you got and a convertible?  That is what you are due.  Would that be $400?

szaferani

Ok I will check the T&Cs. The price difference between a convertible and a standard car is more than $400. You can rent a standard car for the same trip for about $750 total - so based on that logic I would be entitled to a larger refund at least. 

Sandtree

szaferani said:

Ok I will check the T&Cs. The price difference between a convertible and a standard car is more than $400. You can rent a standard car for the same trip for about $750 total - so based on that logic I would be entitled to a larger refund at least. 

What is the difference between a convertible and the class of car you got? I'm guessing it wasn't a group A small car otherwise you'd have known straight away it wasn't a convertible. 

Have to say I am always surprised at how bad these companies are at matching bookings to vehicles... I get that customers return them late, damaged or they break down but cannot remember the last time that Hertz or Avis gave me the class of vehicle booked. Almost always its been an "upgrade" but sometimes you book a little car because you want a little car and so getting a XC40 instead as they've "run out" of Corsas is irritating. 

Key is what the T&Cs you agreed to state

Sodium68

Why on earth did you leave the car hire depot With a car that you didn't book?
 I'd have refused it and demanded what I booked or accepted a reduction in the cost and taken a non convertible. 
A similar thing happened to me at Miami years ago , I'd booked an intermediate car and they tried to fob me off with a compact, I kicked of big style in their office and after 5 minutes of me ranting they backed down and gave me a big SUV and said it was a mistake and admitted they had no intermediate cars at that moment.
Generally if the car class you book isn't available they move you up a class in my experience.
Just take the $400 and get on with life.

photome

I to am wondering why you left the depot with the car they gave you, am also wondering why you paid in dollars to the UK division.

there is still a serious shortage of cars in the US rental market, so was always a danger of not getting what you wanted, what class of car did you get? some of the premium / luxury cars are a similar price to a convertible so it could be that $400 is a decent refund.

you cannot expect a full refund as you had use of a car for the duration, if you had refused to take the car in the first place it could have been resolved there and then

onashoestring

You are unlikely to get the resolution that you are hoping for. 

•You accepted the car at pick up .

•When you phoned Avis they offered you the option to return the car but you declined and decided to keep the car.

•You used the car for duration of the trip. 

Due to the current shortage in cars for rent ; hire car companies are in a strong position when they can’t provide the car that was booked . They can simply cancel a contract and give you a refund knowing that it’s going to be difficult for the customer to find and alternative.

Not great customer service , but by offering the option to return the car at the start of the trip and now paying a partial refund they have met their obligations- unless you can find something in the T&Cs that says otherwise.

Westin

I would generally agree with the replies you have already had.  

Without raising and rejecting at collection, your position has weakened.  I can’t see an argument for a full refund, you received an alternative. I would think that their T&C will detail and cover in these eventualities if read.

The difference in the rental cost between the reserved car group and the group the received car is in seems fair.  Presumably that is the $400 amount returned.

I did do a search on the Avis site for 3 dates in the late summer/early autumn and could not see convertibles being offered at their SFO location.

Lavendyr

Oh first world problems.  Sorry, that was just my first reaction to this thread - oh the agony of not having a convertible. I'm done now. ;-)

How are you $1500 out of pocket? Are you saying that you received a car that was that significantly below the valkue that you paid for? They refunded you $400 so it is a bit confusing, and you did have use of a car which you accepted for your holiday - so if anything you are out of pocket by the difference between hiring a car that you specified and the car that they provided. 

I'm really unsure what you want beyond the resolution offered. If there is a discernible difference in price between what you paid and what you received, and that is more than $400, then it would seem reasonable to ask for that difference.

CKhalvashi

This has highlighted why we have one customer service team working to the same standards for all operations, there seems to be no consistency in how Avis (who aren't the only one) have dealt with you here.

Getting to the actual contents of OP's post. Numbers go in order of highlight as it's 7am here and I haven't had a second coffee yet.

szaferani said:

Hi everyone,

I'll keep this as succinct as possible despite the long story! I am having a problem getting a refund for a car hire agreement with Avis which wasn't properly fulfilled. 

Would love your thoughts on whether there is any more I can do - the mis-selling part feels very very wrong to me...

We hired a convertible car direct with Avis through their UK booking team to use in the US (San Francisco Airport pick up, Los Angeles Airport drop off). We know with these bookings they we are not guaranteed a particular model of convertible but any convertible, however the car we got when we got to San Francisco Airport was a sporty car but NOT a convertible and they didn't even bother to explain it wasn't on pick up so we took it out of the garage in the hope we could figure out how to put down the roof. When we questioned Avis about this on the phone / at one of their sites a day after pick up we were told they had no convertibles available to replace the car (and admitted they never did!!!) so our only choice would be to return the car. As we were in the US at the time we had no choice but to keep the car (or have the stress of returning, trying to find another company WITH a convertible, get refunds, pay more money out for the new company etc). We were told at this time that we would need to pick the issue up when we returned the non-convertible at the end of our trip.

On returning, the staff in the LA Airport Avis office did not care in the slightest and told us we needed to pick it up with the UK booking / customer care team once we were home. Our experience with the UK booking / customer service team has been the worst; basically a load of empty promises about refunds of at least 50% of the value of the car rental which they did not go on to fulfil - all we wanted / want is our money back. We have always been the ones calling them and were promised updates but never had them, and they just kept blaming it on US Avis teams even though the booking was with them and they are one company.

After about two months we were issued with a refund of $400 without any agreement from us, not even a quarter of the value of the rental we took out, and were provided with a rude email from the company to say that their position was final. We are still $1,500 out of pocket and despite having A car for the trip - we wouldn't have spent so much on the type of car if we knew we weren't going to get it.

We have looked into third party companies who we can escalate the complaint with, however the problem we are finding is that most of the recommended organisations only cover car rentals that take place in the UK or Europe, not those that are booked in the UK but take place elsewhere e.g. the US.

Any help would be appreciated!

Thanks,

Sophie

1) Why did you specifically need a convertable? I'm of the age where weather like California has is much nicer with an air conditioned car. In any event, trying to get a certain type of car may be quite difficult when dropping in another location. A notable exception to this was for my sister doing the 'Route 66' in the wrong direction a few years ago and being given a choice of cars that needed to be dropped back to the rental company at the other end at a very competitive price. What did you end up with? (Meaning what do you define as 'sporty'? I ask this a) because I'm nosey and b) because it's easier to ascertain what class of car you finished with to assess the overall reasonableness of the situation.

2) Yes, a company should not really be selling what they don't have, but equally when you had a car, it should have been clear that they'd know you'd be in that situation. The company cannot, however, give you what they don't have. The US doesn't have the same consumer laws as the UK (in fact consumer rights are virtually non-existent), so if any US company said to me 'deal with it at the end of the trip', that means it likely won't be dealt with unless I have something to the contrary in writing.

3) Strictly speaking, you booked a rented car and that was fulfilled to the greatest extent (meaning you got a car). On your assessment of the car you received being 'sporty' (which is why a make/model would help as your idea of 'sporty' probably isn't the same as mine), I can't reasonably see that 50% would be a fair assessment of your losses, even if it may form an initial assessment benchmark based on the reality of the situation.

4) Avis US is not the same legal entity as Avis UK, even though they may form part of a single group. I have a business relationship with Avis spanning several countries and each is under a separate contract with a different legal entity specific to that market. I have no business relationship with their US division.

5) $400 would seem to be (at first glance) fair to me, perhaps more than fair if you've been upgraded. I assume you've paid about $1900 for the car (why did you pay the UK division in dollars?) This would leave a charge of $1500 which may or may not be the difference between the category of car you got and the one you paid for, possibly with a goodwill gesture on top. I don't believe a court would deem that unreasonable, nor do I see why you feel that's unreasonable.

6) As above, the US has very limited consumer rights compared to the UK. The US is based on a free market and lax regulation (although is actually a lot more heavily regulated than the UK in general for businesses, definitely not so in consumer rights where there's unlikely to be such a thing as unfair consumer terms in most states). Assuming as you've paid in USD you are holding a US contract, you are very unlikely to find a consumer body willing to take this on.

At a quick glance, to enter the US market we'd need to pay around $4000 and fill in around 25 different forms, none of which protects consumers and all of which appears to create unnecessary market barriers. In the UK/EU most businesses have no regulation at all.

The only people I can imagine it may be worth e-mailing is the Better Business Bureau, however they will not have any regulatory control of your contract with Avis. I feel that the company has been fair in their dealings with you and has offered a reasonable resolution to your complaint. I also can't honestly blame them for stating that they will not take this further following their gesture of goodwill to you.