party fence wall repairs - how to approach this?

Brie

But even a wall 2 foot high would provide a boundary.  Now students are students (don't ask me how I know) and may very well ignore a mere line of bricks at ground level but should know enough most days to respect a wall that's at least knee height.

For the OP - when you get quotes why not get one for removing the wall completely and erecting a 6 foot high wooden fence.  Wood would be much cheaper than something brick built and may be easier to get past the neighbouring landlord.  You might also suggest that he check with his insurance company if they would pay for repairs for damage to the wall caused by his tenants.  Afterall I doubt a little old lady pulled the stones on to her lawn.  (take lots of photos before it's tidied up)

Jab88

Bendy_House said:

Jab, do as Giddypip has said - check your deeds.

From what you have shown, this is indeed a shared wall as the actual boundary line runs down the middle of it. However, unless your - and your neighb's - deeds state that they 'must' be maintained, and who by, then there might be little you can do to force the issue.

I would hope, tho', that it is mentioned, and that it's a shared responsibility (still not sure how enforceable, but I think it can be).

First, tho', quotes. I presume you don't want a rebuilt wall like what's there? I say this mainly from the point of cost, but also that fact that it won't give you the privacy you want - a taller 6' high brick wall will cost a lot more...

So, consider what it is you want there. I'd suggest concrete posts and gravel boards, supporting whatever type of fence you like - hey can vary a lot in cost. Armed with a couple of options, and the info in the deeds, then approach the owner.

If they are amenable, then the new fence should also run down the middle, and remain a shared responsibility. If you find yourself in the horrible position that they won't agree to contribute, and that there's little you can do about it, then your options are to either take on the whole cost yourself (bang goes your fancy new kitchen...), or to just erect a tall fence on your side of this wall, leaving the collapsing wall in situ. You will then, of course, effectively lose another 4" of garden width (and bang goes your fancy new bathroom).

Thank you, we wanted to rebuild the wall to the original height and then put a fence on top similar to the below. 
We'll get some quotes and would probably make most sense to then take these to the owner/estate agent and we can go from there. 

Jab88

canaldumidi said:

* edddy's suggestion is wise. Don't go in insisting as a party wall neigbour must pay half. Ask instead. Along with 2+ quotes, hopefully reasonable ones.

* I'd suggest re-building to original height and then attach a trellis to your side and grow roses (or whatever) up the trellis.

Thank you, that's what I'm planning to do, seems like the most reasonable option. Seeing it's owned by a landlord, I wasn't sure whether to approach them prior to getting quotes, as they might want to use their own trades people they are already familiar with. 

Bendy_House

They must know the state it's in, surely! Probably quite aware that it needs sorting.

 So, fair do's, no harm in making contact, explaining you are their new neighb, and would like to discuss options for the best way forward with this SHARED wall which is in a potentially 'dangerous' state...

Be prepared to compromise, tho', as I suspect that 'rebuilding' the wall will be the most costly option. 

Jab88

eddddy said:

canaldumidi said:

* Ownership of the wall itself lies with whoever built/paid for it originally. I assume you don't know.

That doesn't seem to be relevant in this case.

The wall straddles the boundary which makes it a 'Party Fence' wall. I assume that's how the surveyor reached their conclusion.

If one property owner built and owned it, it would be on their own land. And if part of their wall straddled the boundary onto their neighbours land it would be trespass - so that's unlikely.


Here's what a RICS surveyor says about 'Party Fence' walls:

Essentially, a party fence wall is a wall that sits astride the boundary between two separate pieces of land, with different owners on each side of the wall. Part of the wall above ground (not just the foundations, or footings) must be astride the boundary. The party fence wall does not form part of a building or structure on either portion of land.

An example of a party fence wall is a wall between the gardens of two properties, which acts as a single boundary feature. Because the ownership of a party fence wall is shared, both owners have certain rights and responsibilities under the Act. As such, party fence walls are included in the Party Wall Act. Certain works to party fence walls would require a Notice to be served under the Party Wall Act, to the relevant adjoining Owners. As with party walls, and party structures, once a Notice has been served, the processes as described in the Act need to be followed, before works can commence.

Link: https://hardingsurveyors.co.uk/party-wall-matters/party-fence-wall/

Thank you @eddddy you've been really helpful and actually gave some really good advice on how to deal with this. The wall is right in the middle of both properties which would therefore make it a party fence wall indeed with shared responsibility. 
Hoping the owner will be reasonable, seeing as it's a landlord and they have responsibility to provide tenants with a safe environment. When speaking to the current tenants, they said the estate agent/landlord has been quite good at fixing things they raised, they didn't raise the wall issue previously as the property we just purchased has been empty so it didn't bother them as much not having a wall or fence in between. 

Jab88

Bendy_House said:

They must know the state it's in, surely! Probably quite aware that it needs sorting.

 So, fair do's, no harm in making contact, explaining you are their new neighb, and would like to discuss options for the best way forward with this SHARED wall which is in a potentially 'dangerous' state...

Be prepared to compromise, tho', as I suspect that 'rebuilding' the wall will be the most costly option. 

thank you! It might just be the case of fixing it really, I can see there are plenty of bricks left so they might be able to reuse them and put the wall in a much better state and put a fence on top. 
The house we bought has been empty for over two years and we have no idea in what state the wall was at that time. The current tenants said they didn't bother raising the issue with the wall as no one was living in the house. 

Bendy_House

Good luck, and please keep us updated