House title in one name only and care home fees

elsien

@lisyloo, I do realise that there is strong financial pressure but just wanted to say that the blanket statement about the LA having to choose the cheapest option isn't accurate.
Working with someone at the moment (although as in your case it did take a bit of arguing) where the LA is paying the top up because the cheaper options didn't properly meet the contact with friends needs. 

Brie

I've been completing the financial assessment form for MiL going into care.  Her circumstances are a bit similar to your mom's in that she has very little cash (relatively) and no major assets.  

On the form there is a question "do you own any property?".  For her the answer is no as she lives (or did prior to going into hospital) with us in the home we own.  The answer for your mom would also be no.

There follows another question "if you do not own your own home...is your home owned by company/housing association/privately?"  And we are named as the home owners.  The answer for your mom would be your dad.

Subsequently there is a section about partner's finances and it states that this is information given voluntarily.  So your dad wouldn't need to tell them anything.  Doesn't apply to my MiL as FiL died a few years back.  My understanding is that completing this is more crucial if a partner's lack of assets might change how the LA looks at your mom's assets.  I.e. if she had a great pension would she need to ensure that he continued to get at least half of it in order to cover all his costs.  

And fyi - a friend's family were in similar circumstances to yours - mom was terminally ill and dad with early dementia.  They had already made mirror wills to ensure that each retained half the share of the home with the other half benefiting their children.  There was no complaint made when mom died and dad needed more care cover - the LA couldn't touch the portion that had gone to the kids.  

Finally - I would say that it's too late now to do anything about POA for your mom if she already has been recognised as having dementia.  But POAs should be in place for your dad so you can better help manage on his behalf in the coming months.  POAs can be done quite reasonably with online forms at less of a cost than with a solicitor but if that's already in motion I would simply go along with it.  

Sorry that you are going through this.  It's a difficult situation, stay strong.

lisyloo

Sea_Shell said:

pollypenny said:

Robrob1981 said:

My parents are married and in their early 80's.
Unfortunately mum has recently had to go into a care home as she is not on her feet and has dementia. The care package has not been worked out yet and she is still under free NHS care for a few weeks more.
Sadly my dad has recently found out that he is terminally ill. He probably has 6 months or so to live.
We have been looking at finances to fund mum's care and discovered that the house is in my dad's name only and there are no joint savings.
Mum has a small amount of savings (about 30k) and a small state pension. Dad has the house (£250k approx), a private pension in his name only plus substantial savings (100k approx I think but am not sure).
He doesn't want all his money to be eaten up in care home fees when he is no longer with us so plans to leave the house and savings to his two children in his will. It goes without saying that us kids intend to do right by our mum whatever happens and will be topping up any state care home fees so she is comfortable.
My question is can he do this?
Will social services attach a lean on the house?
Will they go after my dad's assets?
Please only answer if you know what you are talking about and no judgey comments please. 
Thank you

Whilst I have sympathy with you and your parents, OP, I think it's a shame that after what is, apparently, a long and happy marriage your father considers the 'family' assets as 'his' money. 

Any funds should be used to benefit both adults in their needs. If there's anything left to pass on that's a bonus. 

Quite.

If he truly loves his wife, why wouldn't he want her to have the best care "his" money could buy her after he's gone?

Is it a feeling that her care has (or should have) "already been paid for through our taxes"?

I don’t think everyone appreciates that being left to the state can mean being in somewhere called “over my dead body grove”.
i believe I coined this term when my SiL loudly exclaimed that her mother was going into one of those homes “over her dead body”.
what she meant by that is that she would give up her job to care for her mother whatever the consequences. That wouldn’t have been in MIL best interests as she progressed to needing the care of 2 people to move, but it very plainly expresses the sentiment.

many people feel they will be getting the same as the state provides and whilst it’s a lottery it can be a long way from the truth.

lisyloo

elsien said:

@lisyloo, I do realise that there is strong financial pressure but just wanted to say that the blanket statement about the LA having to choose the cheapest option isn't accurate.
Working with someone at the moment (although as in your case it did take a bit of arguing) where the LA is paying the top up because the cheaper options didn't properly meet the contact with friends needs. 

That great, but I bet that person has strong advocacy working for them on their behalf.
What do you think would happen to someone with no children or children in Australia or children who don’t want to know.
as you say - it took a bit of arguing.

i take your point that they don’t have to take the cheapest, but with budgets as they are then they are inclined that way.

the LA have a responsibility to tax payers as well so they won’t take a more expensive option unless there is a reason, which as you say their representatives can sometimes express.

it also come down to availability as well of course.
there are some expensive homes in Bristol circa £1500 per week which are purpose built and state of the art and those have long waiting lists.

Mojisola

Robrob1981 said:

Mum has a small amount of savings (about 30k) and a small state pension.

Dad has the house (£250k approx), a private pension in his name only plus substantial savings (100k approx I think but am not sure).
He doesn't want all his money to be eaten up in care home fees when he is no longer with us so plans to leave the house and savings to his two children in his will.

It goes without saying that us kids intend to do right by our mum whatever happens and will be topping up any state care home fees so she is comfortable.

There is an expectation that spouses will leave each other reasonably provided for - if a spouse is not left anything, they can claim against the estate.

I can understand him wanting to pass on some of his capital to his offspring but it could save a legal challenge if he provided for his wife as well.

If he's totally resistant to the idea, it's lucky for your Mum that you are willing to help fund her care.

TBagpuss

AS others have said, your Dad *can* do that but it is likely that an application could htne be made on your Mum's beahlf under the Inheritance Act as he would have failed to make reasonable proviion for her as his spouse. If she lacks capacity then whoever holds her POA (or her deputy if there is no POA) could do so and indeed would probably have an obligation to, as the attorney or deputy is required to act in her best intersts.

I would very strongly recommend that your dad gets proper legal advice - look for a a solicitor who is a member of STEP and/or Solicitors for the Elderly.

If he were to leave 50% to his wife and the balance to his childnre then it if far less likely that any challenge could be made or could suceed (and if your mum doesn't have a will then on her death, anything remaining would automatically go in requal shares to the children, so if the plan is to ensure that her needs are met and then have any surplus for the childnre then it acheives that aim.

lisyloo

FWIW - my step mum has just died (unexpectedly).
Her and my dad were tenants in common and she has left her half to her daughter and grandson.
they had legal advice, so I presume leaving my dad 50% with a lifetime interest (or whatever it’s called ) to stay in the house is ok according to the advice they had.

Keep_pedalling

lisyloo said:

FWIW - my step mum has just died (unexpectedly).
Her and my dad were tenants in common and she has left her half to her daughter and grandson.
they had legal advice, so I presume leaving my dad 50% with a lifetime interest (or whatever it’s called ) to stay in the house is ok according to the advice they had.

It is a perfectly standard thing to do, it provides the survivor with security and also protects the inheritance in case the survivor remarried. 

lisyloo

Keep_pedalling said:

lisyloo said:

FWIW - my step mum has just died (unexpectedly).
Her and my dad were tenants in common and she has left her half to her daughter and grandson.
they had legal advice, so I presume leaving my dad 50% with a lifetime interest (or whatever it’s called ) to stay in the house is ok according to the advice they had.

It is a perfectly standard thing to do, it provides the survivor with security and also protects the inheritance in case the survivor remarried. 

That's very re-assuring and an example of how it helps the rest of us deal with the aftermath in the way they/she wanted.

GDB2222

I haven’t met the lady, but it’s not clear whether she could still appoint an attorney. It depends on her mental state.

It might be worth looking here…

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/dementia/legal-issues/

Certainly, if she still can make that decision validly, it would be worth doing so ASAP.