Non-Refundable Deposit - What are my consumer rights?

weddingsos2023

Myself & my partner have booked to get married on 14.07.2023

Upon viewing the venue, we agreed a date and paid a £2000 ‘deposit’ which would come off the balance of the venue. We have had a change of mind and no longer wish to proceed with the ‘big wedding’ we want to have something small and intimate with our immediate family. Looking back through email correspondence, which is the only correspondence we have had with them (no phone calls or meetings etc) it has never stated that the deposit is non-refundable. They have sent a contract out to us which has NOT been signed and returned. What are the chances or being able to get any of this ‘deposit’ back? I understand if they must keep a fair amount for administrative fees, but they have done nothing towards the wedding so far, no meetings, prep work. As the wedding date is over a year away and they are voted number 1 wedding venue in Essex, this date can easily be filled again – surly they cannot profit from this date twice if it was to be rebooked by someone else?

It states this in the contract (again, which hasn’t been signed and returned & was sent to us AFTER making the payment) 

“Confirmations Once a booking is confirmed with a deposit payment, a contract is deemed to exist. All wedding bookings will be considered definite when the Terms & Conditions have been signed and returned.

Wedding Cancellation/Amendment Policy

Under no circumstances is the deposit refundable. The following cancellation charges apply:

Date of Cancellation Cancellation charge payable by you

12 months before date of wedding £2000 deposit (non-refundable)

9 months before date of wedding £2000 deposit (non-refundable) and full venue hire fees

6 months before date of wedding £2000 deposit (non-refundable), full venue hire fees and 50% of all food costs based on numbers stated in confirmation letter

3 months before date of wedding £2000 deposit (non-refundable), full venue hire fees and 100% of all food costs based on numbers stated in confirmation letter

We advise clients to consider purchasing an appropriate wedding insurance policy which covers cancellation costs as a precautionary measure. If the numbers we confirm in writing to you drop by 30% or more or you change your package to one of a lower value, Greenwoods have the right to charge a £500 amendment fee” 

I have been looking at the consumer rights act and some of the key points stand out to me:-

-          Excessive cancellation fees  Terms that allow the trader to take too much of your money if you back out of a contract can be unfair. If you want to end a contract, a trader can claim for administration and marketing costs and for any work they had started and loss of profit but no more.

Do I have any rights? 

Thank you.

societys_child

Don't know, have you spoken to them?

Aylesbury_Duck

What's the point of a deposit if it's always refundable? 

You may have to wait and see if they do secure a booking of at least that value for the date in question. They don't have to return your deposit immediately, no matter that you do have rights to its return under certain circumstances.

MalMonroe

Hi, this government document may help - 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/cancelling-goods-or-services-guide-for-consumers/cancelling-goods-or-services#consumer-law-may-help-you

You do have rights, and as far as I'm aware, businesses aren't allowed to say "Under no circumstances is the deposit refundable".

The gov. document explains that any business can only charge disproportionate amounts if they are going to be unable to recoup any losses. 

I would think that with them having twelve months to resell the venue for a wedding, they'll manage that in no time at all.

In this case, the venue isn't going to lose out. 

If they're so popular, why not contact your local newspaper and see if they'd be interested in doing an article about this mean business if they refuse to play ball?

You may also be interested in information in the following link -

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/wedding-venues-advised-to-play-fair

It's from 2016 but still relevant.

MalMonroe

societys_child said:

Don't know, have you spoken to them?

A bit mean, and not at all helpful.

powerful_Rogue

MalMonroe said:

societys_child said:

Don't know, have you spoken to them?

A bit mean, and not at all helpful.

Well the first port of call should be to phone them up and see what they say. That comment was certainly more helpful then your one of going to the papers.

weddingsos2023

Thank you for your comments. 

I emailed them at the beginning of the week to go through some options as I didn't want to go in blazing demanding a deposit back I wanted to test the waters and go over some options and gather as much information as I possibly could before going for our deposit. 

The wedding & reception there is only £6448 and we paid £2000 deposit to secure the date and then have paid an additional £2300 on top of the £2000. 

They have said that they can return the £2300 and will do up until 9 months before and then it will decrease. 

I don't mind them keeping around £500 for 'administrate costs' - I just feel to keep the full £2000 when these 'terms and conditions' was never made clear to us upon payment, and even after a year of originally booking no contract has been signed with them to agree to these contractual conditions.  

Sandtree

weddingsos2023 said:

Thank you for your comments. 

I emailed them at the beginning of the week to go through some options as I didn't want to go in blazing demanding a deposit back I wanted to test the waters and go over some options and gather as much information as I possibly could before going for our deposit. 

The wedding & reception there is only £6448 and we paid £2000 deposit to secure the date and then have paid an additional £2300 on top of the £2000. 

They have said that they can return the £2300 and will do up until 9 months before and then it will decrease. 

I don't mind them keeping around £500 for 'administrate costs' - I just feel to keep the full £2000 when these 'terms and conditions' was never made clear to us upon payment, and even after a year of originally booking no contract has been signed with them to agree to these contractual conditions.  

A contract in England is formed when there is an offer, acceptance and consideration (aka payment). They offered to hire you the venue for £6,448, you accepted and then made consideration by way of the initial £2,000 payment and so a contract was formed. 

Deposits by their very nature are non-refundable by default else they are 99% pointless, the fact you chose not to ask questions about the T&Cs before binding the contract doesn't invalidate the fact a deposit isn't refundable. Next time read the contract before agreeing to it by paying... a signature is totally unnecessary in UK contract law but is just a handy form of proof. 

Don't under estimate the cost of readvertising the property... a quick look on Google Adwords and the estimate is £8.50 per click (that's click, not purchase) for "wedding venue Essex"... I'd be surprised if they get a 1% conversion rate from clicks and but if they did that means there is £850 of advertising fees before you even start getting into costs of showing people round the venue that dont then book, dealing with all the enquiries for dates that aren't available etc etc. £2k total does feel high but not necessarily ridiculously so. 

user1977

Sandtree said:

weddingsos2023 said:

Thank you for your comments. 

I emailed them at the beginning of the week to go through some options as I didn't want to go in blazing demanding a deposit back I wanted to test the waters and go over some options and gather as much information as I possibly could before going for our deposit. 

The wedding & reception there is only £6448 and we paid £2000 deposit to secure the date and then have paid an additional £2300 on top of the £2000. 

They have said that they can return the £2300 and will do up until 9 months before and then it will decrease. 

I don't mind them keeping around £500 for 'administrate costs' - I just feel to keep the full £2000 when these 'terms and conditions' was never made clear to us upon payment, and even after a year of originally booking no contract has been signed with them to agree to these contractual conditions.  

A contract in England is formed when there is an offer, acceptance and consideration (aka payment). They offered to hire you the venue for £6,448, you accepted and then made consideration by way of the initial £2,000 payment and so a contract was formed. 

Just to clarify, you don't need to have actually paid any consideration in order to form a contract. It would still be a binding contract if the full amount was paid at a later date. All that's required is that the contract provides for a consideration (rather than them lending the venue to you for free...).

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

Sandtree said:

weddingsos2023 said:

Thank you for your comments. 

I emailed them at the beginning of the week to go through some options as I didn't want to go in blazing demanding a deposit back I wanted to test the waters and go over some options and gather as much information as I possibly could before going for our deposit. 

The wedding & reception there is only £6448 and we paid £2000 deposit to secure the date and then have paid an additional £2300 on top of the £2000. 

They have said that they can return the £2300 and will do up until 9 months before and then it will decrease. 

I don't mind them keeping around £500 for 'administrate costs' - I just feel to keep the full £2000 when these 'terms and conditions' was never made clear to us upon payment, and even after a year of originally booking no contract has been signed with them to agree to these contractual conditions.  

A contract in England is formed when there is an offer, acceptance and consideration (aka payment). They offered to hire you the venue for £6,448, you accepted and then made consideration by way of the initial £2,000 payment and so a contract was formed. 

Deposits by their very nature are non-refundable by default else they are 99% pointless, the fact you chose not to ask questions about the T&Cs before binding the contract doesn't invalidate the fact a deposit isn't refundable. Next time read the contract before agreeing to it by paying... a signature is totally unnecessary in UK contract law but is just a handy form of proof. 

Don't under estimate the cost of readvertising the property... a quick look on Google Adwords and the estimate is £8.50 per click (that's click, not purchase) for "wedding venue Essex"... I'd be surprised if they get a 1% conversion rate from clicks and but if they did that means there is £850 of advertising fees before you even start getting into costs of showing people round the venue that dont then book, dealing with all the enquiries for dates that aren't available etc etc. £2k total does feel high but not necessarily ridiculously so. 

Is the deposit not just reassurance from the customer that they are serious about the contract and more likely to go ahead.

As much as I dislike guidance both the Government site linked above and Which state a retention of the deposit should generally cover losses the company will/have suffered and if they seek to claim more than that then the term may be classed as legally  unfair. 

We spoke about this on another thread, based on that previous advice from yourself, is OP not in breach of contract and the company entitled to their losses and no more?

tightauldgit

weddingsos2023 said:

Thank you for your comments. 

I emailed them at the beginning of the week to go through some options as I didn't want to go in blazing demanding a deposit back I wanted to test the waters and go over some options and gather as much information as I possibly could before going for our deposit. 

The wedding & reception there is only £6448 and we paid £2000 deposit to secure the date and then have paid an additional £2300 on top of the £2000. 

They have said that they can return the £2300 and will do up until 9 months before and then it will decrease. 

I don't mind them keeping around £500 for 'administrate costs' - I just feel to keep the full £2000 when these 'terms and conditions' was never made clear to us upon payment, and even after a year of originally booking no contract has been signed with them to agree to these contractual conditions.  

If the terms and conditions weren't made clear to you what did you think the £2000 deposit was exactly? That's kind of the whole point of a deposit - that it isn't refundable if you decide to cancel.

To be honest it just sounds like you are trying to wriggle out of your agreement now that you've changed your mind about it. You paid a non=refundable £2000 deposit (if you thought that was excessive then the time to query it was before you paid it) and the you changed your mind through no fault of the venue. That being the case I don't really think it's up to you to dictate to them what you think is 'enough' for them to keep. 

If I was the venue I wouldn't entertain you.